Why do people buy TN panels?
- Thread starter Rilot
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Quoted as 6ms but measured with an oscilloscope as ranging from around 4.5 - 15ms depending on the transition. Not that it really matters.
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It is noteworthy to mention that motion tests have shown large differences in motion clarity, depending on whether or not the 120 Hz has excess pixel persistence or not, and whether or not the 120 Hz is strobed/flickered like a CRT:If you're adventurous you might want to look up 120hz(dot)net or google Overlord Computers in the US.
Both have 'overclocked' IPS screens for sale (tho they may be sold out at the mo - my Yamasaki Catleap came in one of the last batches available to buy recently). They have a single DL-DVI and no OSD or scaler, gtg is approx. 6ms I believe.
Have had it at 116hz with no issues so far, still trying for the magic 120
Baseline - recent 60 Hz LCD - (16.7ms frame)
40% less motion blur (<2x better) - overclocked 120 Hz IPS LCD - (8.33ms frame, but ~10ms persistence)
50% less motion blur (2x better) - regular 120 Hz TN LCD - (8.33ms frame)
85% less motion blur (7x better) - LightBoost 120 Hz TN LCD, LightBoost at 100% - (2.4ms frame strobe flash)
92% less motion blur (11x better) - LightBoost 120 Hz TN LCD, LightBoost at 10% - (1.4ms frame strobe flash)
If you do a lot of FPS video gaming want perfectly CRT tube clear motion on an LCD (more than 10x sharper fast motion than a 60 Hz LCD), you unfortunately need a TN LCD, since the only LightBoost LCD's use TN LCD's. The 1.4ms strobes of the best LightBoost setting are similiar to phosphor decay on a CRT tube (phosphors shine for about 1 to 2ms).
Example of a testimonial found on HardForum:
So I finally got the VG248QE hooked up last night and was able to play around with it for a couple hours. The other monitor that I have is a HP ZR30W which is a 30" 2560x1600 IPS monitor so I will be comparing the VG248QE to that a lot in this review.
Right off the bat, I noticed the color quality seems to be a lot worse than the ZR30W. Everything looks to be washed out, dull and not to mention the monitor suffers from poor viewing angles. On the ZR30W, there is next to no color shifting when I move my head around unlike the VG248QE, but that's a common problem with all TN monitors. I tried calibrating the monitor a little bit using some of the values posted online, but it still doesn't compare to the HP.
Moving on, the first thing I tried was 144 Hz gaming. I loaded up Borderlands 2 just to see how it is and I can definitely say it felt smoother. There is no screen tearing at all on the ASUS, unlike how it is on the HP if i don't turn on Vsync. Although the game felt smoother at 144 Hz and there was less blurring, I found that having to play on a lower res (1920x1080 vs 2560x1600) and poorer color reproduction made the overall gaming experience WORSE. Granted this isn't a competitive, online FPS game so I might have benefited more from having a faster refresh rate, but I would have probably stuck with playing this game on the 30" IPS monitor rather than a 24" TN.
At this point I felt like I may have wasted $300 bucks on a monitor that is full of compromises. The next thing I tried of course was using the Lightboost hack. This was the main reason why I bought the monitor in the first place since there are plenty of other 120 Hz monitors that I could have gotten that I'm sure had better color reproduction.
So I downloaded the hacked INF file and followed Mark's instructions. After turning on Lightboost, I noticed the monitor became a little bit brighter so I loaded up PixPerAn just to verify everything is working. The first thing I noticed was that I can actually read "I need more socks" at full speed! This was cool since I've never been able to read it going so fast before on any LCD monitor.
I then proceeded to load up Borderlands 2 again not having much expectations. The first thing that happened was I noticed the FPS drop down to around 1-2 fps, but then I remembered to hold down "Ctrl-T" for a few seconds to turn off the 3D effect which fixed the FPS problem. So I loaded up a game and the first thing that came to my mind was...
SWEET MOTHER OF GOD!
Am I seeing this correctly? The last time I gamed on a CRT monitor was back in 2006 before I got my first LCD and this ASUS monitor is EXACTLY like how I remembered gaming on a CRT monitor. I was absolutely shocked and amazed at how clear everything was when moving around. After seeing Lightboost in action, I would have gladly paid twice the amount for something that can reproduce the feeling I got when playing on a CRT. Now I really can't see myself going back to my 30" 2560x1600 IPS monitor when gaming. Everything looks so much clearer on the ASUS with Lightboost turned on.
If you do any kind of gaming, you should definitely get this monitor. For everything else however, an IPS monitor would probably be better.
Thankfully I am lucky enough to have both
Unfortunately, PixPerAn tests show overclocked 120 Hz IPS LCD's only give an approx 40% improvement to motion than regular 60 Hz LCD's. That is ONLY a 2x improvement in motion clarity. The only way to get a complete order-of-magnitude improvement (10x less motion blur) is a LightBoost TN LCD, such as the BENQ XL2411T. It's like getting the full high definition motion, fast pans look as perfectly as sharp as stationary images. Even fast moving single-pixels are visible, PixPerAn readability test 30, PixPerAn "I NEED MORE SOCKS" perfectly readable, etc. The strobe backlight makes it possible to break the pixel persistence barrier (see high speed YouTube video of pixel persistence being bypassed).
40% less motion blur (<2x better) - overclocked 120 Hz IPS LCD such as Overlord or Catleap 2B
92% less motion blur (11x better) - LightBoost 120 Hz TN LCD (LightBoost at 10%)
There is a HardForum user who has an ASUS VG248QE (TN LightBoost) and a Catleap 2B overclocked IPS 1440p 130Hz, guess which monitor he uses for gaming (Yep, the TN LCD!) ... (He helped me measure these percentage motion blur improvements for 120 Hz 1440p IPS, using motion test measurements). So sometimes the IPS choice is not as easy as you think, if you are a big-time video gamer... Some professional sponsored competition gamers are now using LightBoost (Team Exile 5, for example -- see their review) because the lack of motion blur improves reaction time.
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Wow thats a really interesting post. Makes me consider getting one of the new lightboost monitors as a replacement for my alienware AW2310 which has been fantastic for a TN panel.
Reading the above has just stopped me dead in my tracks, I was virtually just about to order a new 22in monitor.
I now need a LOT of help.
I need a 22 monitor overall width not more than 20.5inches as it needs to fit in an Ikea PC desk.
Use:- General internet browsing, plus a little gaming SOF BF3 etc
What do I buy ????
Target price circa £140 / £150
I now need a LOT of help.
I need a 22 monitor overall width not more than 20.5inches as it needs to fit in an Ikea PC desk.
Use:- General internet browsing, plus a little gaming SOF BF3 etc
What do I buy ????
Target price circa £140 / £150
Where did you get these % better specs? From a manufacturer website?
Im sure the motion is a lot better but it depends what you value most..... Crisp motion or nice colours / overall image quality.. From my experienc of TN panels the colours and viewing angles are not great compared to my NEC monitor.... Maybe they are improved recently I don't know.
I would certainly be interested in trying a recent TN panel.... Which are the best image quality out of the 120hz screens? At least the TN do not have the IPS white glow problem. I have a feeling I will be dissapointed with the image quality comming from high end IPS though... But mabe I am wrong...
Im sure the motion is a lot better but it depends what you value most..... Crisp motion or nice colours / overall image quality.. From my experienc of TN panels the colours and viewing angles are not great compared to my NEC monitor.... Maybe they are improved recently I don't know.
I would certainly be interested in trying a recent TN panel.... Which are the best image quality out of the 120hz screens? At least the TN do not have the IPS white glow problem. I have a feeling I will be dissapointed with the image quality comming from high end IPS though... But mabe I am wrong...
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I would never go back to 1920x1080 TN after 2560x1440 IPS goodness
So for me the choice really was easy LOL.And I have an AMD card so lightboost is out of the question anyway.
There is no question that TN is better for competitive online gaming for response time and lag but the question is how is the image quality in modern TN screens.... I guess the only way is to try one but I have a feeling I will be dissapointed because I have a 2012 Sony 40" SPVA screen and a NEC IPS screen.
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The short form:
Generally as a rule of thumb, if you use the Windows Desktop quite a lot, you'll definitely like 1440p IPS. More pixels, more windows, more space, better color. If you do any programming, web design, office work, etc. However, if you really hate motion blur and/or your #1 priority is video games and motion clarity -- you definitely should try out LightBoost.
If your monitor is always displaying moving objects all the time (rather than static windows), motion blur makes fast motion during 1440p look like lower resolution. Eliminating motion blur means that fast panning motions (turning, strafing) look exactly as sharp as stationary motion. If your monitor is always displaying moving objects and game motion instead of window desktop -- do you prefer low-def motion (perceived resolution lost in motion blur) or high-def motion (perceived resolution preserved during motion)? If you play slow games, you may not benefit much. But if you're doing fast action FPS -- games similar to Quake Live, Counter Strike, Battlefield 3, Team Fortress 2, Crysis, etc. -- then you will be most interested.
Most computer monitors are often at windows desktop most of the time, though. If that's true, it's worthy to seriously consider 1440p IPS. Unless you're someone who seriously hates motion blur even at Windows desktop (which also applies to scrolling and window dragging too).
Alas, we can't get everything in the same monitor (1440p, IPS, and strobe backlight mode that can be enabled during games). Yet.
Generally as a rule of thumb, if you use the Windows Desktop quite a lot, you'll definitely like 1440p IPS. More pixels, more windows, more space, better color. If you do any programming, web design, office work, etc. However, if you really hate motion blur and/or your #1 priority is video games and motion clarity -- you definitely should try out LightBoost.
If your monitor is always displaying moving objects all the time (rather than static windows), motion blur makes fast motion during 1440p look like lower resolution. Eliminating motion blur means that fast panning motions (turning, strafing) look exactly as sharp as stationary motion. If your monitor is always displaying moving objects and game motion instead of window desktop -- do you prefer low-def motion (perceived resolution lost in motion blur) or high-def motion (perceived resolution preserved during motion)? If you play slow games, you may not benefit much. But if you're doing fast action FPS -- games similar to Quake Live, Counter Strike, Battlefield 3, Team Fortress 2, Crysis, etc. -- then you will be most interested.
Most computer monitors are often at windows desktop most of the time, though. If that's true, it's worthy to seriously consider 1440p IPS. Unless you're someone who seriously hates motion blur even at Windows desktop (which also applies to scrolling and window dragging too).
Alas, we can't get everything in the same monitor (1440p, IPS, and strobe backlight mode that can be enabled during games). Yet.
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Interesting thread, im still waiting for a screen that comes close to my 8 year old crt for graphic/color quality and 0 responce time, im afraid it aint going to happen with this technology, im still waiting, this goes for tv screens also, when ever i game on my crt my jaw still drops compared to any monitor made today, really frustrating 
Unfortunately, for the hardcore, I can't see LCD panels ever meeting or exceeding CRTs for colour gamut or response times. It's just a limitation of the technology.
Kind of like valve amps. No transistor amplifier can ever match the warmth or clarity of sound produced by a valve amp.
Kind of like valve amps. No transistor amplifier can ever match the warmth or clarity of sound produced by a valve amp.
I am pretty sure LCD can match or even exceed the colour gamut / accuracy of CRT..... However pretty much everything else on CRT is better, response times, input lag, black levels, contrast etc.