BGT3620 HD Freeview issue.

Seggons · 29 May 2011 at 16:59

Hi,

I've recently brought a BGT3620 and I've been experiencing an issue when viewing HD channels which I cannot work out. But before I continue I'd like to list down a few specs before I continue.

Computer:

Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro
CPU: Intel Core i7 2600k
RAM: Kingston HyperX 8GB (2x4GB)
Graphics: Nvidia 8800GTS
Sound: Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty Edition linked to 2.1 speaker set-up
PSU: XFX 650W XXX Modular Edition
Hard Drives: 1x 60GB OCZ Vertex SSD With Windows 7 and 1x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 For Data
TV Card: BGT3620
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Edition
Main Monitor: LG Flatron W2363D 3D Ready running at 1920x1080 @ 120Hz
2nd Monitor: Dell Something running at 1280x1024 @70Hz
Windows is fully up to date patch wise and has all the latest drivers for all hardware applied.

Location: Bedfordshire
Transmitter: Sandy Heath which has been through the digital switch-over.
Distance away by road: 6.4 miles
Can the transmitter be seen from the house: Yes

To save me trying to explain my issue and possibly confusing you along the way I've made a video so you can physically see the issue yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqlH0lVLk20

As you can see from the video I start off at BBC One HD and you can clearly see the stuttering picture which doesn't clear up if I leave it. Then as I move channel it seems to keep some of the previous picture as well as a pixelated picture of the channel I'm on and so on. Strangely through the BBC Preview which is the last of the HD channels worked fine at the time. I just tried it again but with live golf on this time and I get the same problem as the other channels.

Just to prove that it isn't just a weak signal I move onto some non-HD channels and they work perfectly.

Things that I've tried. To me that showed all the symptoms of a low signal. I run a little indoor aerial seeing as I can see the transmitter. (http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5344857/Trail/searchtext>AERIAL.htm) So I went out a brought a plug in signal booster which boosts the signal up to 20dB. Tried that and if anything it just made the picture even worse then what it was. I then tried a utility called Vista/7 Media Center Decoder Utility to changed the media decoder in case it was that. But the few video codecs I had to choose from just brought up a decoder error in the media center.

So as a last resort I went out today and brought 6 Meters of aerial cable so I could plug into the house aerial socket. That feeds to a proper big aerial which is located in our loft. That video above was taken with the loft aerial connected and it has made zero difference. So now I've hit a brick wall because I have run out of ideas. I'd like to think I've ruled out low signal as a cause. I believe my computer is beefy enough to watch Hi Def TV. So I don't know if it's a bug with the cards hardware, the drivers for the card or weather it's Microsoft’s Media Player being funny. I did try spending a few hours trying different TV viewing apps. But seeing as there is only 2 products on the market that pick-up DVB-T2 it's hardly surprising that they all failed to pick up the Hi Def channels.

Edit: I've just found a trial app that does pick up the HD channels and they display and work fine. So I'm lead to believe that it's some kind of software issue.

Thanks a lot to anyone that has read this far and helps out.

Tealc · 29 May 2011 at 18:12

Had a similar ish issue the other day with playback of HD video from BBC One HD. I had lots and lots of digital errors on screen and occasional time flash backs for half a second every 2 or 3 minutes, which showed a partial scene from 20-30 before overlaid over the current scene. It was like segments of the transmission was missing, or not being picked up properly.

All SD channels were fine and with good signal. HD signal was also good.

Checked all my coaxial wiring and aerials and still it was poor.

Eventually I backtracked my video driver down to 11.2 and it cleared it all up. The recording I had made, which had previously been almost unwatcheable, was spot on perfect with no glitches.

So my advice would be to check your graphics driver and that hardware acceleration is occuring as it's supposed to.

Seggons · 29 May 2011 at 19:56

I just tried downgrading my Nvidia drivers from the beta to the WHQL and there was no difference. Still the same broken up feed. I'm also unable to upgrade back to the beta drivers because the Nvidia installer fails.

MeMeMeMe · 29 May 2011 at 21:03

If you're getting a poor signal, using an amplifier can sometimes make it worse, as it amplifiers the noise in the signal too.
The HD channels need a stronger signal the the SD channels, so you can be experiencing break-up on HD and be having no problem on SD.
So, you haven't eliminated a weak signal as the cause yet.

That said, I think the most likely culprit is your graphics processing - as Tealc suggests, it may be a hardware acceleration problem.

You could use driver cleaner to get rid of all trace of the old drivers, and try downgrading to an older driver - not the last WHQL driver, but the one before that.

Tealc · 29 May 2011 at 21:21

What about a recorded stream? Try playing a .wtv recorded HD program with windows media player rather than media centre and see if it's the same. Not sure what other software will play it back, even though it's just basically a h264 encoded transport stream. Maybe vlc will do it?

I could never find signal quality info with wmc but was able to display my signal with the PCTV software that came with my 290e. Does the Blackgold come with software that can allow you to check your signal?

Maybe check your DXVA ( think that's what it is called) acceleration settings.

VideoReDo has software that will let you look at the wtv file to check for recording errors. I use it to trim adverts.

Seggons · 29 May 2011 at 22:57

MeMeMeMe said:
So, you haven't eliminated a weak signal as the cause yet.

I found an alternative piece of software called DVBviewer Pro and that not only picked up the channels fine, but showed them to me perfectly. The only problem is DVBviewer costs and I don't want to pay for something I already have with Windows.

MeMeMeMe said:
You could use driver cleaner to get rid of all trace of the old drivers, and try downgrading to an older driver - not the last WHQL driver, but the one before that.

Driver Cleaner appears to cost money. I don't know if you meant Driver Sweeper? If so I was going to use it until Internet Explorer wouldn't let me run it. After I done some reading on it, it was found a cause problems with system files and Windows Update.

Tealc said:
What about a recorded stream? Try playing a .wtv recorded HD program with windows media player rather than media centre and see if it's the same. Not sure what other software will play it back, even though it's just basically a h264 encoded transport stream. Maybe vlc will do it?

I just got some interesting results from this. So I recorded 1 minutes worth of TV from 4HD and as normal it was glitching away and looking horrid. Played it back in Windows Media Player and it look the same. But when I dropped it into VLC it didn't play any audio back but the picture was perfect. So does this suggest that Nvidia's Drivers are causing this issue?

Tealc said:
I could never find signal quality info with wmc but was able to display my signal with the PCTV software that came with my 290e. Does the Blackgold come with software that can allow you to check your signal?

Software, Blackgold doesn't even ship with it's own drivers let alone software.

But from the bit I wrote above, plus VLC playing back the footage fine and being connected to a roof aerial it seems to me it's a conflict of software somewhere.

Tealc said:
Maybe check your DXVA ( think that's what it is called) acceleration settings.

Come again?

Tealc said:
VideoReDo has software that will let you look at the wtv file to check for recording errors. I use it to trim adverts.

I think from the VLC test that the video is being captured fine. The issue seems to be between Nvidia and Windows. But my head is all confused and I need some sleep because I got work to do at silly o'clock in the morning. Back to this tomorrow.

Thanks for the help people.

Tealc · 29 May 2011 at 23:37

Yea that's basically why I suggested trying a different player in an attempt to check and prove your reception is ok.

Vlc audio doesn't work for me either. I think the codec isn't supported. AAC-HE or something. I tried loads but nothing worked.

So it's clearly a driver issue with the hardware acceleration used with windows media player/centre.

Afaik vlc doesn't do much with hardware acceleration.

DXVA is something like Direct X Video Acceleration and I'm sure it can be turned off so your Nvidia driver is removed from the equation. Not at my PC right now so can't look it up.

If you can go back further with your driver as I'm sure no fixes have been put in for your 8800 for quite some time.

MeMeMeMe · 30 May 2011 at 12:17

Seggons said:
I found an alternative piece of software called DVBviewer Pro and that not only picked up the channels fine, but showed them to me perfectly. The only problem is DVBviewer costs and I don't want to pay for something I already have with Windows.

I use mediaportal, also free, but if WMC isn't working there's a problem that should be sorted out if you can even if you use another software.

Driver Cleaner appears to cost money. I don't know if you meant Driver Sweeper? If so I was going to use it until Internet Explorer wouldn't let me run it. After I done some reading on it, it was found a cause problems with system files and Windows Update.

Yes, I think Driver Sweeper is the one I meant. It's a long, long time since I had to use it.
When you use it, you can choose which programs you want to remove traces of. Just select nvidia drivers, and don't remove anything else, and you'll be fine.

Seggons · 30 May 2011 at 15:57

Can I just thank you guys a ton for steering me in the right direction of the issue I was having. My issue is fixed but not quite how I wanted it to be.

Seeing as things pointed to something Nvidia was causing I removed everything Nvidia wise from the computer. I did look to see if I could turn off any kind of Direct X Video Acceleration but it seems the only way to do it is to disable the card itself which then stops Windows Media Center from working because it needs the card.

Anyway once I removed everything Nvidia wise I then did this process.

Start > Right Click My Computer > Manage > Device Manager > Display Adaptors > Right Click on Nvidia Geforce 8800GTS > Uninstall > Check to remove software too.

Restart Computer > Safe Mode > Run Nasty File Remover (NFR) To Remove Any Left Over Files > Install Driver > Restart Computer > See if HD Channels Work In Media Center > Check The Recorded Footage Which Was Unviewable In Windows Media Center With The New Drivers.

I spent about 3 to 4 hours doing this process to find the newest working driver and here is my conclusion.

GeForce Driver v275.27 BETA 275.27 17.5.2011 Unviewable
GeForce/ION Driver v270.61 WHQL 270.61 18.4.2011 Unviewable

GeForce/ION Release 260 WHQL 260.99 25.10.2010 Unviewable
GeForce/ION Release 260 WHQL 260.89 18.10.2010 Unviewable
GeForce/ION Release 256 WHQL 258.96 19.7.2010 Unviewable
GeForce/ION Release 256 BETA 258.69 29.6.2010 Unviewable
GeForce/ION Release 256 WHQL 257.21 15.6.2010 Perfect picture and what I'm using

GeForce Release 197 WHQL 197.45 13.4.2010 Perfect picture

The reason why I said above it's not quite fixed as I wanted it to be is because of the 3D Drivers. I brought the LG 3D Ready monitor with the Nvidia 3D kit. The 3D Drivers were standalone drivers until the latest drivers in which they now wrap it all up as 1 package. I cannot run the latest drivers because of this TV issue.

It looks like the issue is now totally out of my hands. It seems like Nvidia has changed or added something between 257.21 and 258.69 and has continued up to this date.

My next step is to ping Nvidia an email with a link to this thread. Not that I'm expecting Nvidia to take any action on a issue that 1 user out of millions is having but it's worth a try.

Street · 18 Jun 2011 at 16:55

Tealc said:
Eventually I backtracked my video driver down to 11.2 and it cleared it all up. The recording I had made, which had previously been almost unwatcheable, was spot on perfect with no glitches.

So my advice would be to check your graphics driver and that hardware acceleration is occuring as it's supposed to.

Thanks for that post, was having a few graphical glitches on the HD channels but was using the 11.6 drivers. Swapped back to 11.4 after reading this and its working fine!