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AMD Fiji HBM limited to 4GB stacked memory

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Am only just going onto 1440P 4k for me is still couple year away..

I don't think 4k is going to be an option for me for a couple more years either, I'm going 2560 x 1080 for freesync and superwide this year so a 390x sounds close to on the button. By the time I go 4k hopefully Nvidia will be in the game with hbm and free-sync compatibility, either that or they'll drop the g-sync premium a bit.
 
Soldato
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just wish AMD would actually release some real info to put an end to the constant speculation, would help a lot of us that are waiting to see for our next upgrades.
 
Soldato
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Afaik and recall, Nvidia lost the contract for their proposal on stacked memory. SK went with AMD and so AMD gets first crack at HBM and Nvidia have to wait a year. They will be behind the curve so to speak. They will lose 2015 and I'd assume prep/design for HBM2 in 2016 so all is not lost.

Volta was a HMC design, which is a Micron joint. That fell out of favour for whatever reason. Intel is using it however.
 
Caporegime
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I don't really believe they were ever going to use HMC, it's basically non viable for a huge amount of products.

An HBM stack has a area footprint of something nuts like 42mm^2, it's TINY, it's significantly smaller than a single gddr5 chip. HMC is god damned huge for a reason I can't even begin to understand. HMC in the full 4 link 160GB/s bandwidth layout is 31mm x 31mm package, it is god damned ridiculous, that is 961mm^2, the "small" package at 120GB/s is still 16 x 19.5, which is still 312mm^2. It's completely and utterly non viable right now as really on package memory(with the processor). The few designs I've seen are say multiple FPGA's on a PCB with the HMC separate in far memory mode(not on package).

Currently speaking afaik the maximum interposer size is somewhere between 650-800mm^2.... so putting a high end gpu of say 450-600mm^2 and even one HMC stack is completely impossible, I honestly don't know how they made it so big and thought it was viable.

I also can't imagine a more mainstream product like a discrete gpu using something that isn't a Jedec standard and can't really be relied upon. What if only one memory maker bothers making it(afaik Samsung aren't even sampling it or doing much with it), Micron being very very closely aligned with Intel, what if you make a run of HMC products and Intel/Micron just stop selling it to you, or stop producing it, you're screwed.

Basically there is zero viability to use HMC with the on package variant now or in the near future, but being that the full speed variant is almost 23 times larger... that is a LOT of shrinking to do.

HMC's only real advantage is signalling. It's entire thing really is that it's replaced the parallel signalling with serial signalling. Much like hdd's going Pata to Sata, reducing signalling makes it easier to increase speed and drastically reduces power of the signalling(if done right). Aside from that HMC is all downsides, it's more expensive than any other type of memory, it's monumentally and ridiculously large, it's not a standard, it's long term future is unknown.

Alongside HBM which is cheaper, a jedec standard, it's well, not 900mm^2+ per stack, it will scale in capacity and speeds very nicely. the only slim advantage HMC may have is with how it accesses the memory internally, it may be a little more efficient though I've seen no direct comparison. But the complexity which may have increased efficiency is probably also responsible for the near ridiculous size of the thing so.... meh.
 
Mobster
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Afaik and recall, Nvidia lost the contract for their proposal on stacked memory. SK went with AMD and so AMD gets first crack at HBM and Nvidia have to wait a year. They will be behind the curve so to speak. They will lose 2015 and I'd assume prep/design for HBM2 in 2016 so all is not lost.

We all, and I'm sure NVidia feel the same.... appreciate AMD beta testing :)
 
Associate
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So HBM or whatever stacked type of ram there is still uses GDDR5? or is the memory chips themselves a whole new format? Will there be a GDDR9 ? or are we diverting from the GDDR format

GDDR which AMD helped invent is being moved away as HBM again AMD help invented, they will be moving away from GDDR to HBM as its lower power; connections are closer to gpu and provide a lot more bandwidth easier...
 
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Afaik and recall, Nvidia lost the contract for their proposal on stacked memory. SK went with AMD and so AMD gets first crack at HBM and Nvidia have to wait a year. They will be behind the curve so to speak. They will lose 2015 and I'd assume prep/design for HBM2 in 2016 so all is not lost.

Ummm.......AMD helped develop HBM......you might be thinking of HMC;
 
Soldato
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The chips inside a HBM stack are not GDDR5 no. They are a new design which run "slower" individually but aggregate to astonishing speeds. That's just in bandwidth terms though, I think they are actually more responsive as far as timings. Also bear in mind they are tiny compared to a GDDR5 module (footprint) and use way less power. Basically it's win win win.
 
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