HD800 with creative x7 not sounding so great. Help!

nightrider1470 · 2 Jan 2016 at 14:20

Rroff said:
This is where I don't think the chain is well matched - the 2114 has some imperfections in the mid-range which most headphones wouldn't reveal but the 800s absolutely would and also tends to have a bit of an overly loud, 1 dimensional treble which probably wouldn't play nice with the upper end on the 800s. Combined with the LMEs which also tend to be a bit cold and bright and you probably end up with very lean lower end and lots of nastiness in the treble on the 800s though I'm guessing at some of it as I've only heard the parts in isolation and not put together in one package.

Hence my recommendation of trying something like swapping all the op amps for OPA2227 (replace 2114s) and OPA227s (replace the LMEs) which would give a thicker more balanced sound.

EDIT: Or just changing the amp and/or DAC though the unamped RCA outputs on the X7 I believe are still connected off the LMEs but any amp downstream would also have a say on the sound signature unless it was truly transparent. The X7 seems to me is setup to make average headphones sound good but probably at the expense of its performance with truly high end headphones.

Thanks..... I all ready own one of these. Is it ideal? and how many opamps do I need to swap out, 4?

Rroff · 2 Jan 2016 at 14:34

4 in total 2 of them are dual op amps and 2 are singles - you could try just swapping out the LMEs first as reputedly they have the biggest impact on the sound signature.

Unless you are experienced with soldering you need op amps in DIP-8 format - the MSOP-8 part you linked would required being soldered to an adapter

http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/opa2227pa/ic-op-amp-low-noise-hi-precision/dp/1564892 (those are the duals I recommended)

http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/opa227p/ic-op-amp-8mhz-2-3v-us-dip-8/dp/2342296 (singles)

There is also a cheaper version of the 227 single - OPA227PAG4 which probably works as well but I've not actually done any homework on that.

EDIT: This is assuming the problem you are identifying is actually due to the X7 and not another part of the setup.

TALON1973 · 2 Jan 2016 at 17:44

Always the hd700 bashing on here.... don't know why , they are a great headphone

I use mine as an all-in-one solution .

rids57 · 2 Jan 2016 at 17:49

Ryan bashing them kind of cancels out you singing their praises

Personally I don't comment on them as I've not heard them, I'm just an HD650 evangelist instead.

Ryanr1987 · 2 Jan 2016 at 18:22

I wouldn't say I bash it. If I believe something sucks I'll say it does and why. I guess I'm too open about stuff sometimes but if I lied I couldn't live with myself lol

It's not as bad as the Audeze LCD-EL8 closed, that headphone is a £600 statue.

MartynB85 · 10 Jan 2017 at 16:20

Ryanr1987 said:
It's not as bad as the Audeze LCD-EL8 closed, that headphone is a £600 statue.

What's wrong with them, I was thinking of grabbing a set.

stoke1863 · 10 Jan 2017 at 23:05

Ryanr1987 said:
"I don't have enough experience with the HD 800 to really get involved here. But why in the world did you get that headphone with a creative amp,and why oh why did you get that setup for movies and gaming only? Seems to me you're out of your depth here and maybe only have to much to spend on headphones? Get something better suited to your needs, like maybe the HD 650 or one of them cordless sennheisers, or maybe some steelseries phones? Sell the 800s and move on... Good thread though with informative"

This was a reply to Nightrider on Headfi...Firstly if the guy who replied doesn't have experience with the HD800 he needs to be quiet and not question the amp being used by Nightrider. He came across as a right douche and this is another problem on audio forums.

Don't waste your time on there you will end up buying something that is trash and overhyped. It seems all the knowledgable people are banned? Wonder why that is? Sponsors I bet!

This is why I prefer this forum, nobody judges you, no one is arrogant and everyone is honest. The HD800 isn't complicated as many make out. It's a little analytical but unlike the messy HD700, it's still a smooth response up until the treble region. I think it has the best bass bass extension of any fully open dynamic headphone.

The upper end is where the issues come into play it's just very revealing, unnatural in sound and is made to bring out very small detail. What I love about the HD800 is its driver is very low in distortion, micro detail is high and it's resolution is unmatched. Mods help make of a more musical headphone or adding a warmer chain if you just want to try lush them up a bit.

A Schiit Modi + Vali is £200 and that's a cheap and good sounding set up. Like the 650 the 800 scales like a daemon so it will get better as you upgrade or just stay with a Schiit stack. I'm just using my Chord Mojo to drive all my future gear, it's easy and good sounding.

Well Said Ryan! you summed up Head-fi perfect

mraerosmith1981 · 11 Jan 2017 at 06:47

I use a little dot mk iii with my HD 800 and it sounds very nice, and certainly helps take the harshness off them at the top end

TwsT · 11 Jan 2017 at 08:39

could you try swapping the op amps combos? probably cheaper than splashign on a DAC/AMP first rroff might be a good person to talk to about opamp combos. ignore me should have read the whole thread

james.miller · 12 Jan 2017 at 07:04

Headfi is toxic for sure, but i did find this honest sounding post on the hd800's

Kapanak said:
I recently responded to another Head-fi'er regarding the comparison between the Schiit Valhalla 2 and Bottlehead Crack w/Speedball upgrade. I thought I'd share that here.

The Bottlehead Crack and the Valhalla 2 are both arguably the best under $1K-1.5K amps for the HD800.

Do keep in mind, both of these amplifiers are OTL (output transformerless headphone amps).

Let's assume that the Bottlehead Crack was preassembled, as I think you already know it is a DIY amp that must be assembled by you. There is no question that the Speedball upgrade is necessary and crucial for pairing with the HD650 or HD800.

The Bottlehead Crack is as stereotypical as a tube amp gets: It gives a warm, smooth tone to the HD800. To my ears, the warmth was too much for the dark sound of HD650, but still a great pairing. The crack has an output impedance of 120 ohms, which is massive. This is an amp only meant to be used with 150ohm and above headphones, no questions. Compared to higher priced options, it is not as resolving and controlled enough to take full advantage of the HD800 capabilities, but almost there. The choice of tubes in this amp, given it is entire tube driven, plays an important role in how your sound is coloured.

The Valhalla 2 is a whole other story. This is not a typical fully tube driven amp. It is very resolving, even for HD800. It has fast, neutral sound, and the clarity is astonishing at this tier of amps. The Crack is definitely a few notches warmer. I prefer the HD800 with Valhalla 2, as it takes advantage of all the capabilities of the HD800. The output impedance is 3.5 ohm on low, and 14 ohm on high setting, so it pairs a lot better with other headphones, though I do not recommend this with low impedance orthodynamic headphones, as it does not deliver enough power for orthodynamics. Lyr 2 or Asgard 2 would be a better pairing if you want to use Audeze, MrSpeakers or Hifiman products (they are far more versatile).

At the end of the day, I vastly prefer the Valhalla 2 with both HD800 and HD650. You really won't find a better fully tube driven output transformerless amp until you seriously increase your budget by three to four times. However, I also own the Bottlehead Crack for two reasons. It is easier to listen to when I am tired and do not want to be attentive to my music (kind of hard to explain). And also, I love to DIY electronics (physicist by practice, work in a quantum computing lab, so electronics are kind of my life), and the Bottlehead Crack allows me to tweak parts as I see fit, and observe if there are any changes to the sound (usually only tubes and capacitors make a small but noticeable difference).

http://www.head-fi.org/t/660817/whats-the-best-amp-for-hd800/345#post_11983017

deFiniLoGy · 12 Jan 2017 at 12:47

Ryanr1987 said:
This is why I prefer this forum, nobody judges you, no one is arrogant and everyone is honest.

Despite agreeing with you on Head-Fi, I wouldn't completely agree on that statement either. There are a lot of members who only believes in their technical knowledge and comepletely disregards theory that contradicts to their own solely down to their believes in their knowleadge.

Back to the question, I actually think throwing out cash onto an expensive cans and then upgrade the backbone is much more logical than going the other way, although for most people I do recommend a pair of HD650 over the HD800 for general use.

Rroff · 12 Jan 2017 at 13:55

deFiniLoGy said:
Despite agreeing with you on Head-Fi, I wouldn't completely agree on that statement either. There are a lot of members who only believes in their technical knowledge and comepletely disregards theory that contradicts to their own solely down to their believes in their knowleadge.

I believe Ryan's perspective there is that people here typically don't have a vested interest in getting someone to use a certain brand, etc. so don't tend to intentionally distort the truth to that end.

Audio is always going to be as subjectively driven as it is objectively and something I've learnt over the last couple of years is that there can always be a twist to the story whether not having as much experience as one thinks or even just getting a faulty batch of a device or component, etc.

TwsT · 13 Jan 2017 at 13:58

Floating around HF/SBAF/Discord/R/Headphones all of them have their own weaknesses.

Here is first and foremost a computer enthusiast forum with some overlap into other areas. So a large portion of people in this section have started with a PC and gotten into audio because they wan't to enhance their gaming experience, once you've sorted your PC out. Peripherals are the next port of call and headphones are a huge factor.

As a result we have less members who are "wallet emptier's"(perhaps due to previously mentioned PC) And a much more calm approach focused on value for money. A bit like reddit, only with considerably less circle-jerking and memes.

But yeah you won't always get the answer you need here because there is simply too much variety and not enough active members so it's partly a curse and partly a blessing.

Myself i'm thinking of picking up an NFB 11 from Audio GD for my living room and calling it a day on amps. Seems very well received for chifi solid states.

GoRedwings19 · 15 Jan 2017 at 22:32

With Regards to Headfi. Very few if any of the old crew that I associated with in the past have since long gone. Members like Bozebuttons, Hirsch, Zanth, Wmcmanus etc had not also headphone collections that would make most men cry but the the equipment to drive it.

They are also some of the most knowledgeable people on the planet of different headphones and headphone amps combos. I have not been on headfi in 10+ years. Without those members who made Headfi so good then it is difficult to persuade myself to go back there and also for the fact I have no interest in headphones any more.

I am not sure what happened to Headfi since I was there but i we use to have such a good headphone commuinity. Let put it this way. It was a Headfi member who registered and paid for my He90's without ever meeting me. And Also I use to send my headphones around the world for people to try. He-90's, he60, Ps-1, R10, stax o-2's, hp-1, l3000 and god how many headphones amps I use to lend out.

TwsT · 16 Jan 2017 at 10:11

well the latest head fi saga about Hifimans EDition 6 is a rare peak into perhaps a change at head fi?

it didn't get shut down like you would have expected some personal attacks were removed but criticism of a sponsor overall was allowed.

terribly handled by fang as usual.

They did finally lock it but i suspect that was to protect it from fang rather than to shut down discussion.

rids57 · 16 Jan 2017 at 19:43

I just read the thread and oh how I did laugh, $6000 for flimsy headphones and $2000 for single dynamic driver IEMs - the man is delusional

TwsT · 17 Jan 2017 at 09:07

even if it is worth it, he totally failed to grasp that peoples concern lies with HFM making V2's for less money too soon after release and the shoddy workmanship of previous TOTL headphones that cost rather a lot.

Ryanr1987 · 17 Jan 2017 at 20:59

Hifiman are a joke now. I'm not sure what is worse Audeze's driver failures and consistency, bad driver matching or Hifiman's customers service team, sub par products and stupid pricing. I get it Planars are in demand due to clever marketing but they are not worth the price they are offering. I enjoyed the HE-1000 but it wasn't anything special and didn't really soar over the HD800(S) or even the HD650 in some areas. Fang Fang Fang...oh dear me you've got yourself into a pickle LOL I feel bad but then I don't because the HE-1000 was a beta test for £2000+ and all the build issues and their CS offering to send products out for 5* reviews...

Anyone considering a Hifiman product either grab the Edition X and put up with it's slightly overpriced performance issues but a good tonealloty of simply just don't. I'd rather people buy the Utopia because even though it's overpriced it's bloody good.

rids57 · 18 Jan 2017 at 00:14

LMAO - I just watched Tyll's interview with Fang, where he accidentally introduced their new IEM as the "RE Two Thousand dollar" - oops