Will there be F1 in 2016?

andicole0 · 29 Sep 2015 at 15:17

I'm sure there has to be but...

Just Ferrari, Mercedes and Haas possibly.

Mclaren - with potentially no drivers and a still rubbish engine?
Lotus - without a Mercedes engine and so many debts to taken up by Renault plus fitting a rubbish engine back in by next April? On top of which Maldanodos continued repair bill?
Force India/Sauber - No money and have just appealed to the EU because the F1 funding is badly distributed. Might have upset Bernie a bit?
Red Bull/Torro Rosso - No engine! Mercedes and apparently Ferrari have both said no now?

So, a 6 car field for Australia!! Even if Haas actually make it.

Oh, sorry -

Manor - anyone bothered? I love the team for it's efforts but why do they?

I'd be really disappointed to miss F1 next year but worst case is looking quite bad don't you think?

Andi.

MissChief · 29 Sep 2015 at 15:21

andicole0 said:
I'm sure there has to be but...

Just Ferrari, Mercedes and Haas OK.

Mclaren - with potentially no drivers and a still rubbish engine?
Lotus - without a Mercedes engine and so many debts to taken up by Renault plus fitting a rubbish engine back in by next April? On top of which Maldanodos continued repair bill?
Force India/Sauber - No money and have just appealed to the EU because the F1 funding is badly distributed. Might have upset Bernie a bit?
Red Bull/Torro Rosso - No engine! Mercedes and apparently Ferrari have both said no now?

So, a 6 car field for Australia!! Even if Haas actually make it.

Oh, sorry -

Manor - anyone bothered? I love the team for it's efforts but why do they?

I'd be really disappointed to miss F1 next year but worst case is looking quite bad don't you think?

Andi.

Of there will be F1. And a full grid most likely too.

Most of your 'points' are baiting. I think every team on the go now will be there in some shape of form in Australia.

Skeeter · 29 Sep 2015 at 15:22

Evryone in F1 is all talk and no action. So just like everyone is dragging their heels not actually making any progress, everyone will also just talk about leaving but not actually do it.

McLaren will be there, at the back, with an improved but still off the pace engine, with Alonso and Button.
Manor will have 1 year old Mercedes engines but a complete dog of a chassis and still be slow and rubbish.
Haas will be there, running a Ferrari in a different colour.
Lotus will have Renault engines. All their debt will be paid off by Renault. They will be ok, midfield runners.
FI and Sauber will moan about money and moan that the rules aren't right, but do ntohing about it and turn up anyway.
RBR and STR will be running 1 year old Ferrari engines, and complaining that they are slow and threatening to quit, while getting podiums.
Williams will produce something half decent, then bottle it on strategy time and time again.
Ferrari will be in F1. Ferrari will always be in F1.
Mercedes will be out front winning.
OcUK will be full of crap.

andicole0 · 29 Sep 2015 at 15:25

MissChief said:
Of there will be F1. And a full grid most likely too.

Most of your 'points' are baiting. I think every team on the go now will be there in some shape of form in Australia.

Yes.

Skeeter said:
Evryone in F1 is all talk and no action. So just like everyone is dragging their heels not actually making any progress, everyone will also just talk about leaving but not actually do it.

McLaren will be there, at the back, with an improved but still off the pace engine, with Alonso and Button.
Manor will have 1 year old Mercedes engines but a complete dog of a chassis and still be slow and rubbish.
Haas will be there, running a Ferrari in a different colour.
Lotus will have Renault engines. All their debt will be paid off by Renault. They will be ok, midfield runners.
FI and Sauber will moan about money and moan that the rules aren't right, but do ntohing about it and turn up anyway.
RBR and STR will be running 1 year old Ferrari engines, and complaining that they are slow and threatening to quit, while getting podiums.
Ferrari will be in F1. Ferrari will always be in F1.
Mercedes will be out front winning.
OcUK will be full of crap.

Yes

1 year old engines are not allowed. Manor has an exception this year.

Andi.

Nismo · 29 Sep 2015 at 15:42

Skeeter said:
Evryone in F1 is all talk and no action. So just like everyone is dragging their heels not actually making any progress, everyone will also just talk about leaving but not actually do it.

McLaren will be there, at the back, with an improved but still off the pace engine, with Alonso and Button.
Manor will have 1 year old Mercedes engines but a complete dog of a chassis and still be slow and rubbish.
Haas will be there, running a Ferrari in a different colour.
Lotus will have Renault engines. All their debt will be paid off by Renault. They will be ok, midfield runners.
FI and Sauber will moan about money and moan that the rules aren't right, but do ntohing about it and turn up anyway.
RBR and STR will be running 1 year old Ferrari engines, and complaining that they are slow and threatening to quit, while getting podiums.
Williams will produce something half decent, then bottle it on strategy time and time again.
Ferrari will be in F1. Ferrari will always be in F1.
Mercedes will be out front winning.
OcUK will be full of crap.

+ infinity

Skeeter · 29 Sep 2015 at 15:47

andicole0 said:
1 year old engines are not allowed. Manor has an exception this year.

The WMC meets on 30th September to review and vote on a number of things. One of which is allowing 'Current -1' engines (i.e. the prior years specification), as well as a $9m cap on the cost of Current engines, and $6m on Current -1.

Personally I think its a terrible idea as it basically mandates a 2 tier F1, and allows Mercedes and Ferrari to pick and chose who they want to race against. However, given the current "ZOMG everything costs too much!" rants from the teams, I fully expect the FIA to vote it in.

JRS · 29 Sep 2015 at 16:31

Skeeter said:
and allows Mercedes and Ferrari to pick and chose who they want to race against.

Well, that's what happens when few companies want to make engines for your racing formula. And of the four companies that do want to make these engines (well....three and a half, Renault don't seem that into it!) only two can make engines worth nailing into the back of a racing car.

andicole0 · 29 Sep 2015 at 19:47

WEC engines similar to F1 would be interesting too F1 merge engine specs.
Andi.

Vertigo · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:01

Regards the Red Bull engine debacle and the likelihood they'll end up with Ferrari engines of some description, what about Toro Rosso?

It's reasonable to assume their only option is also Ferrari but surely that would violate the rules on engine supply? Ferrari already supply Manor & Sauber and Haas from next year. If both Red Bull and Toro Rosso were to be added that'd make five for a total of six teams running Ferrari engines!

Vertigo · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:03

andicole0 said:
WEC engines similar to F1 would be interesting too F1 merge engine specs.
Andi.

What?! Why on earth would WEC want anything to do with F1 engine specs? WEC has managed to migrate to hybrid technology perfectly with regulations which have resulted in massively different solutions from several manufacturers yet all fairly evenly matched.

WEC shows F1 how it should be done and F1 needs to learn from them.

Nismo · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:03

Vertigo1 said:
Regards the Red Bull engine debacle and the likelihood they'll end up with Ferrari engines of some description, what about Toro Rosso?

It's reasonable to assume their only option is also Ferrari but surely that would violate the rules on engine supply? Ferrari already supply Manor & Sauber and Haas from next year. If both Red Bull and Toro Rosso were to be added that'd make five for a total of six teams running Ferrari engines!

Manor will be Merc.

Vertigo · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:06

Nismo said:
Manor will be Merc.

Ah yes of course. Still leaves them supplying four teams which I thought was above the limit - isn't it three max?

Skeeter · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:21

JRS said:
Well, that's what happens when few companies want to make engines for your racing formula. And of the four companies that do want to make these engines (well....three and a half, Renault don't seem that into it!) only two can make engines worth nailing into the back of a racing car.

Well, no. It's what happens when you allow them to only sell slower engines to customers and keep the best for themselves.

The current rules (ignoring this years glitch) require everyone to run the same spec engines from a manufacturer.

Skeeter · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:22

Vertigo1 said:
Ah yes of course. Still leaves them supplying four teams which I thought was above the limit - isn't it three max?

Mercedes supply 4 now.

timmeh · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:23

Trying to find issues where there aren't any. Everything will be the same next year as this year apart from Lotus being Renault

CaptainRAVE · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:26

One word, yes.

andicole0 · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:29

Vertigo1 said:
What?! Why on earth would WEC want anything to do with F1 engine specs? WEC has managed to migrate to hybrid technology perfectly with regulations which have resulted in massively different solutions from several manufacturers yet all fairly evenly matched.

WEC shows F1 how it should be done and F1 needs to learn from them.

Yes, sort of what I meant actually

Andi.

Vertigo · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:44

Skeeter said:
Mercedes supply 4 now.

So they do, ok ignore everything I said

andicole0 said:
Yes, sort of what I meant actually
Andi.

Ah ok, I thought you were proposing some kind of equal merging of tech or that WEC should adopt things from F1

WEC is the pinnacle of motorsport now. F1 is the pinnacle of regulations and bureaucracy.

Skeeter · 29 Sep 2015 at 20:55

I think (may be wrong) the rules used to be a maximum of 3 back in the V8 days, and the FIA gave special permission to Brawn to run Mercedes engines in 2009.

I don't think there's a limit any more though.

JRS · 29 Sep 2015 at 21:58

Skeeter said:
Well, no. It's what happens when you allow them to only sell slower engines to customers and keep the best for themselves.

Well, why the hell should Ferrari sell Red Bull (or indeed anyone) works-spec engines? And why should the rulebook force engine manufacturers to build one single specification of engine? Would a cheaper-to-buy, year-old engine not be a better option for a team that has a budget issue? After all, that older engine design would be very much a known quantity.

And it's not as if it's a new thing particularly. For years Ford/Cosworth used to supply a bunch of different specification engines tailored to the budget level of teams. And in '94 you had Mercedes engines in the Saubers, and year-older Mercedes engines badged as Ilmor running in the back of the Pacific cars.