Why do so many monitors these days have issues?

lovelyhead · 28 Jul 2016 at 16:54

I have been thinking about upgrading my 1080p 24" screen to something a bit fancier, perhaps ultrawide or a larger 1440p or 4K, but am seriously put off by all the horror stories of back light bleed, dead pixels, coil whine, popping noises etc.

Why have so many of these monitors got issues? Are there any brands in particular that actually do have decent QC?

RidingTheFlow · 28 Jul 2016 at 20:59

No idea to be honest, but the problem is real - its not just "horror stories", and I am quite saddened & puzzled by it myself.

I have Dell U2412M on my desk which was made 5 years ago but has picture quality miles better than "cutting edge" today's displays which cost 2x times more (even if you account inflation). Back then when I was picking it, I've tried 3 diff models and they all were very good, so picking one was hard choice.
Recently I thought about upgrading and again went through several already,- but old Dell still on my desk.

And worst of all, there appear to be no way to actually buy a proper "premium quality" display, you know - one which actually *guarantees* premium quality,- even if you willing to pay more, the only choice is mediocrity, or rather "randomness"... Even "pro-art" displays nowadays has issues, just slightly less - but they generally unsuitable for gaming since have high input lag, so no go even if you willing to shell 1K+ for features you don't usually need (like wide gamut).

I understand that it maybe hard to sell enough monitors if they just throw away panels with defects that some people are willing to accept.
But why not give people a choice? Even for same model they could just honestly bin them "A+ grade" which will cost big premium, and "B grade" which will be affordable - and people won't have to waste time & nerves (and ones of retailer's too).
It definitely worked with chip manufacturers for ages. For example, Intel makes same core crystals and thens bin them - best ones are clocked high and cost premiums, ones of lower quality are clocked lower and are cheaper. But if you buy 4Ghz CPU, you bet it will work perfectly on 4Ghz. Its not like "4Ghz *but may be down to 3.5Ghz if you are unlucky".

JanxSpirit · 28 Jul 2016 at 21:22

lovelyhead said:
Are there any brands in particular that actually do have decent QC?

AU Optronics AMVA+ panels as used in some BenQ, Asus and Philips monitors are generally excellent in terms of QC and PQ. Sadly, good IPS and TN panels seem to be hard to come by for sensible money at the moment (assuming that you're as fussy as I am). No idea why.

lovelyhead · 28 Jul 2016 at 21:28

RidingTheFlow said:
No idea to be honest, but the problem is real - its not just "horror stories", and I am quite saddened & puzzled by it myself.

I have Dell U2412M on my desk which was made 5 years ago but has picture quality miles better than "cutting edge" today's displays which cost 2x times more (even if you account inflation). Back then when I was picking it, I've tried 3 diff models and they all were very good, so picking one was hard choice.
Recently I thought about upgrading and again went through several already,- but old Dell still on my desk.

And worst of all, there appear to be no way to actually buy a proper "premium quality" display, you know - one which actually *guarantees* premium quality,- even if you willing to pay more, the only choice is mediocrity, or rather "randomness"... Even "pro-art" displays nowadays has issues, just slightly less - but they generally unsuitable for gaming since have high input lag, so no go even if you willing to shell 1K+ for features you don't usually need (like wide gamut).

I understand that it maybe hard to sell enough monitors if they just throw away panels with defects that some people are willing to accept.
But why not give people a choice? Even for same model they could just honestly bin them "A+ grade" which will cost big premium, and "B grade" which will be affordable - and people won't have to waste time & nerves (and ones of retailer's too).
It definitely worked with chip manufacturers for ages. For example, Intel makes same core crystals and thens bin them - best ones are clocked high and cost premiums, ones of lower quality are clocked lower and are cheaper. But if you buy 4Ghz CPU, you bet it will work perfectly on 4Ghz. Its not like "4Ghz *but may be down to 3.5Ghz if you are unlucky".

I am with you 100%. It seems borderline dishonest of the monitor manufacturers to be putting out these screens with so many issues. As you say retailers like Overclockers must be really annoyed with having to deal with the returns.

I too would be willing to pay a premium to know that the monitor I was buying was going to be issue free. The thing is we already are paying massive premiums for monitors such as the new ultrawides from Acer, Asus, LG etc and yet many of the screens' quality does not live up to their pricetag.

The end result is the manufacturers gain a reputation for not caring about quality, customers and retailers are left frustrated and potential customers like me keep their wallets in their pockets.

RidingTheFlow · 28 Jul 2016 at 21:38

JanxSpirit said:
AU Optronics AMVA+ panels as used in some BenQ, Asus and Philips monitors are generally excellent in terms of QC and PQ.

I beg to differ. As with anybody else, they have certain panel models which are good, some which are bad.
Generally, their high res/refresh/size are hardest to make and have most issues. I know it very well since these were exactly among several ones I went through recently (e.g. 32" 4K one). Then I've opened critical amazon reviews for respective models - and they all had exactly same criticism regarding dead pixels & backlight bleed.

se_vietboi · 28 Jul 2016 at 21:38

Just got my PG279Q up and running today. Perfect, no bleeding and dead pixels. OC'd to 165hz no problem. Happy!

RidingTheFlow · 28 Jul 2016 at 21:41

se_vietboi said:
Just got my PG279Q up and running today. Perfect, no bleeding and dead pixels. OC'd to 165hz no problem. Happy!

Yes, and that's part of the problem - that some are actually good, but there is no guarantee to get good one. Sometimes they even try to force you to accept screens with "acceptable amount of dead pixels" which is just unfair - because some people got pixel-perfect screens for exactly same money.

Regarding PG279Q I just leave this here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mje_fmayu0k
Problem with random bleed issues was so high that outcry caused Asus America to implement extra checks in dark room (but other parts of the world were not entitled to that apparently - because less danger of lawsuits probably, and, cheekily these "rejected in USA" screens will be probably sold in third world country stores).

V F · 28 Jul 2016 at 21:59

lovelyhead said:
but am seriously put off by all the horror stories of back light bleed, dead pixels, coil whine, popping noises etc.

Why have so many of these monitors got issues? Are there any brands in particular that actually do have decent QC?

Sounds no different to 2005. I remember so many sending back monitors for 1 - 2 dead pixels or buzzing panels, if not bleed.

Then things became stingy, you had to have 6 - 8 pixels all over the screen before it could be returned. The goal posts kept moving.

DangerousQ · 28 Jul 2016 at 22:12

Personally i think the problem with the state of play of QC in screens is down to current society. A small say 10% of consumers are likely to return a shoddy pos, the rest live with it and are even blind to the problems half the time and the manufacturers know this. They have no intention of making them better all the time they can sell a £1000 screen with a 50/50 chance of getting a good one. We need more suppliers like OCuk who have the good customer service and can relate to someone spending a lot of money and do try to help

JanxSpirit · 28 Jul 2016 at 22:33

RidingTheFlow said:
I beg to differ. As with anybody else, they have certain panel models which are good, some which are bad.
Generally, their high res/refresh/size are hardest to make and have most issues. I know it very well since these were exactly among several ones I went through recently (e.g. 32" 4K one).

AU Optronics don't make high refresh rate or 4K AMVA+ panels.

RidingTheFlow · 28 Jul 2016 at 22:40

JanxSpirit said:
AU Optronics don't make high refresh rate or 4K AMVA+ panels.

Sorry, looks like I've missed the point entirely - always mixing up AMVA and AHVA

Regarding their VA, optical quality of theirs looked good to me (easier to do though, because resolution is low and VA tech naturally have less bleed/glow). But "high-refresh"? Come on, 50+ms response times! This just another case of misleading marketing.

Rroff · 28 Jul 2016 at 22:42

JanxSpirit said:
AU Optronics don't make high refresh rate or 4K AMVA+ panels.

Whether we are talking AMVA+ or not I've found monitors with AUO panels in them aren't that much different quality control wise to any other at the moment :| though the good ones are good there are a more than acceptable proportion of ropey ones getting through.

I guess in general consumers are letting the manufacturers get away with it with the average consumer probably not that aware aslong as their monitor looks bright and vivid and not actually broken.

RidingTheFlow · 28 Jul 2016 at 22:45

Rroff said:
I guess in general consumers are letting the manufacturers get away with it with the average consumer probably not that aware aslong as their monitor looks bright and vivid and not actually broken.

I get the idea of "general consumers", I just don't get why there is no true "premium segment" for gaming monitors. Surely it wouldn't hurt them to earn extra money on people who are actually picky (but are willing to pay for true quality!).

Rroff · 28 Jul 2016 at 22:49

Probably not enough people to make it worth it :S I'd be happy to pay a fair premium for some over-engineering (for instance why do no monitor manufacturers seem to design in some kind of sliding/rotating feature whereby input connections can be done without moving the monitor and/or having to get around the back/underneath) and a quality guarantee with my monitor but can see manufacturers taking advantage of something like that pretty quickly :|

RidingTheFlow · 28 Jul 2016 at 22:55

Rroff said:
Probably not enough people to make it worth it :S

I doubt it. Also, as I mentioned, they don't need to design a separate monitor model just for premium segment. Current lineups seem to have perfect specimens in enough amounts - all they need to do is to bin them into grades and apply separate branding.
E.g. Toshiba at one point had "Satego" and "Satellite" laptop brand and they've used almost identical platforms (even similar cases only with different colour and logo) - but Satellite was clear quality while Satego was clearly affordable one.

PiKe · 28 Jul 2016 at 22:56

Same thing with TVs, rubbish edge lit things with bad uniformity.

Everything seems to be made to a price now rather than making things as good as they can.

V F · 28 Jul 2016 at 23:13

PiKe said:
Same thing with TVs, rubbish edge lit things with bad uniformity.

Everything seems to be made to a price now rather than making things as good as they can.

One size fits all.

Nevakonaza · 28 Jul 2016 at 23:23

Things are not built to last these days,as they simply want you to replace it every few years or pay over the top for the better model that they did actually put effort into the build quality.

My LG monitor was dodgy the day i bought it,had to take it back..they wouldn't replace it,had to send it off for repair,came back from repair..was good for some time then the same issue developed again,this time it was out of warranty so had to repair it myself..funny thing is,ever since i fixed it myself its been fine.

i know its unrelated also but one of my recent TP-Link powelines died,i opened it up to see what had happened and as i expected a blown capacitor..the capacitor was an el-chepo no brand..WHY,You can get a FK series Panasonic brand for 34p.
Not exactly breaking the bank for multi million pound companies.

Dervious · 28 Jul 2016 at 23:28

RidingTheFlow said:
Regarding PG279Q I just leave this here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mje_fmayu0k

I considered getting one of those, but reports of BLB put me off, not to mention the price premium.

Rroff · 28 Jul 2016 at 23:34

Nevakonaza said:
i know its unrelated also but one of my recent TP-Link powelines died,i opened it up to see what had happened and as i expected a blown capacitor..the capacitor was an el-chepo no brand..WHY,You can get a FK series Panasonic brand for 34p.
Not exactly breaking the bank for multi million pound companies.

Puzzles me - you can get the pretty decent FM series in the kind of bulk they are buying for like less than 1p more per capacitor than the no name rubbish - I've even seen rubbish like Chengx or Chongx or whatever in "premium" brand consumer electronics before :| the only reason I can think of is that they want to pretty much guarantee you'll be inline for a new product in a lot less time than it would normally take the better brand caps to fail.