Platform Advice/Suggestions/Thoughts

Hi there, im looking to finally upgrade from my Socket A slug but having trouble deciding what platform
to inject my money into. Ive made a little list of pro's and con's to try & help me decide, do u guys
have any thoughts or suggestions?

Core i7 New Immature Platform

Core i7 Pro's
-New architecture produces better peformance
-Offers some kind of upgrade path?
-Latest tech, should last me for some time (dont upgrade often)

Core i7 Con's
-Offers no upgrade path with current X58 motherboards not supporting Westmere
(Westmere being released 2009, die shrink of i7 with 6 cores)
-Expensive platform, (new socket motherboards, supporting Crossfire, SLI and DDR3)
-Bugs still to be discovered and fixed, BIOS updates etc
-Nehalem i7 not offering a great deal of performance over current tech as most applications
and games do not demand 4 cores, therefore is expensive hardware not being used
-Still a quad core

Core2Quad Dead End Mature Platform

Core2Quad Pro's
-Motherboards are plentiful and fairly cheap with many features
-Cheaper, value platform (DDR2 + motherboards) as opposed to i7
-Bugs, BIOS updates all fixed and achieved

Core2Quad Con's
-Offers no real upgrade path for demanding applications or games in the future
-Struggles to keep up with Core i7 performance by some margin when tested against demanding applications
-A more value orientated socket LGA1156 is being released soonish, supporting i7 (but can i wait?)

I could overclock my CPU in the future if i notice my Core2Quad start to struggle to extend its life?

Another thing to keep in mind, theres not a MASSIVE difference in price between these platforms, but its
the benefit of LGA775 being so mature that is the priceless factor i suppose? Therefore wouldnt have to
deal with all the bugs, problems and BIOS updates that come with being an early adopter.

Its the fact that LGA1366 X58 motherboards are aimed at enthusiasts and i dont really mess with my tech a great deal,
so not really much point for a little player like me to buy this tech?

The reason ive created this thread is to try and understand if theres much point spending £800 for
a powerful LGA775 system when LGA1366 is £400 more, but could let me reap the benefits long term?

Cheers.

what is the PC used for?

Gaming here and there, im not an intense user but id like the system to handle any game i throw at it, and for as long as possible as i dont upgrade often. Its a lot to ask for i know

is getting a cheap C2D rig to last you until i7 matures a bit more, then switching to i7 an option?

ie ( to be sold on later)
cheap c2d cpu like a e5200 or e2200
some DDR2 RAM pc2 6400 stuff
cheap MB p43 chipset

(to be kept)

approprate graphics card
case
PSU
HDDs
optical drive
etc

to buy at a later date
i7 CPU
i7 MB
DDR3 RAM

na it isnt im afraid, i dont particulary like spending my cash on keeping up with comp tech but i dont mind a one off, which is why i need to get this one right.

thnx for the thought though

It is quite tricky now for someone to decide which way to go when coming from an old platform.

You should'nt rule out AMD though. The AM2 socket is still going to be around for a while and the new Deneb cores are due out soon. They are looking very promising in early test's and will cost a lot less than a high end Intel rig. The motherboards alone are half the price of a Intel 1366 board. The ones with the 750 SB are the ones to go for.

AM2+ Active Platform

Pros
Similar performance to C2Q when Phenom IIs hit.
Significantly cheaper than C2Q.
Further CPUs to be released compatible with AM2+

Cons
Future CPUs for AM2+ may not go much higher.

Edit : With regard to what PastyMuncher said, I think when Phenom II comes out then that'll give AMD a level playfield against Intel for Quads. With the exception of i7 of course, which beats Phenom II in most benchmarks I've seen (where Phenom II beats i7 it only does so marginally, and it's in situations where it's not really important).

Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme Edition QX9770 "LGA775 Yorkfield" 3.20GHz (1600FSB) - Retail Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme Edition QX9770 "LGA775 Yorkfield" 3.20GHz (1600FSB) - Retail at £1,000
Compared to the Phenom II 940 (runs at 3.0) at £240 which according to benches seems roughly clock for clock with C2Q. Can't see past the Phenom II for value.

ahh that sucks coz ive done a ridiculous amount of research into Intel and Intel motherboards etc, (i know nothing about comps). I thought they couldnt be touched by AMD, i think i may shoot myself if i had to start again & do research on AMD so, lets say to save my life, what if AMD didnt exist? what u guys reckon based on Intel tech?

Cheers.

I reckon that buying i7 solely because you reckon in 2 years time you'll have some bits left over that are worth keeping for an upgrade is kidding yourself on.

And I reckon that i7 is bang for buck blown out of the water by C2Q.

The only reason to buy i7 is if you are going to be spending a lot of money and you want the best money can buy.

If you're on a very tight budget then it's AMD dual core.
If you're on a budget then Intel dual core.
If you're spending a decent amount of money then AMD quad core.
If you're spedning a lot of money then AMD quad core, but wait for Phenom II.
If you're spending vast amounts of money then i7.

Ok Halk some good points but saying that consider this, the following are the two systems im looking at:

Core2Quad
CPU: Intel® Core 2 Quad Q6600
CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Golden Orb II
Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro (Intel P45 chipset, Crossfire)
Memory: 2.0GB Corsair DDR2 1066mhz Dominator (2x 1GB)
Hard Drives: 500GB S-ATAII 3.0Gb/s
Optical Drive: 5x Blu-Ray ROM S-ATA DVD±RW
Graphics card: ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
Sound card: Onboard 7.1 Audio
Operating System: None
PSU: 750W Thermaltake Toughpower
Case: Antec Nine Hundred
Warranty: 3 Year Bronze Warranty

Total including VAT and Build
£772.50

Core i7
CPU: Intel® Core i7 920
CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Golden Orb II
Motherboard: Asus P6T Deluxe (Intel X58 chipset, SLI/Crossfire)
Memory: 3.0GB Corsair DDR3 1333mhz XMS3 CL9 (3x 1GB)
Hard Drives: 500GB S-ATAII 3.0Gb/s
Optical Drive: 5x Blu-Ray ROM S-ATA DVD±RW
Graphics card: ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
Sound card: Onboard 7.1 Audio
Operating System: None
PSU: 750W Thermaltake Toughpower
Case: Antec Nine Hundred
Warranty: 3 Year Bronze Warranty

Total including VAT and Build
£1,079.09

Thats a difference of £306.69 for a system which is a lot faster, up to date and could last me a lot longer than the dead end C2Q?
It just means i would have to wait for another months paycheck, only thing that worries me is am i putting my money into an enthusiasts platform when i dont know a great deal about comps & overclocking? Becuz if so the C2Q would be more suitable?

For spec 1 you really should go for 4GB of ram. For spec 2 you should go for 6GB.

As far as I'm aware ThermalTake do not have a good reputation for making coolers. I've no idea if that one is any good, but I'd go for a ThermalRight "True" if you want an aftermarket cooler. You don't -have- to have one though.

The i7 920 isn't a "lot" faster than the Q6600. It's a bit faster, and sure it's on a faster platform. But there's not a massive amount in it.

In a few years time the difference will be small.

Imagine 3 years ago you had bought a 2.4Ghz Athlon rather than a 3Ghz Athlon. You'd still be out of date. You'd also likely have 512MB or 1GB of RAM, which wouldn't cut it. The graphics card would be for the bin too, even if it was PCI-E.

You're spending 50% extra for not a lot of extra oompf. And if you take out the graphics card, the case PSU drives and just look at the motherboard, ram and CPU together you're paying much more than 50% extra.

I'll see if I can come up with a spec on AMD so you can have a look at all 3 positions, and see what you think works for you.

A few other quibbles with the specs that you've shown.

The motherboard for the C2Q rig isn't exactly "beefy". It's the cheapest 775 motherboard around. Both specs have a 512MB graphics card, if you're intending running a decent resolution then it may not be enough.

Alright. I've had a look at an AMD spec.

Corners could be cut here, without impacting the speed at stock. I've gone for what's considered the best AMD board. The CPU itself is the best Phenom, however AMD don't have the top end CPUs that Intel do. Saying that for your budget it's just right.

I've gone for 4GB of ram rather than 2GB. See Corsair's Application note on 2GB vs 4GB.

I've gone for a 1024MB graphics card, of the same model as is in your specs.

I've kept the case and drives the same.

You don't need anywhere near a 750 watt PSU, nor would you get any benefit from having one - it's likely to be less efficient at the typical idle power draw of your system too. However good 500W PSUs are a bit thin on the ground so I've ended up going up to 600W.

The CPU is roughly equal to the Q6600, however on the board I've picked you will get miles more overclock out of it.

The Halk said:

In a few years time the difference will be small.

Imagine 3 years ago you had bought a 2.4Ghz Athlon rather than a 3Ghz Athlon. You'd still be out of date. You'd also likely have 512MB or 1GB of RAM, which wouldn't cut it. The graphics card would be for the bin too, even if it was PCI-E.

You're spending 50% extra for not a lot of extra oompf. And if you take out the graphics card, the case PSU drives and just look at the motherboard, ram and CPU together you're paying much more than 50% extra.

Click to expand...

Definitely got me thinking, but making the transition from C2Q to i7 surely has to be some kind of a step, as i7 uses new architecture? Even if it is still only a Quad core CPU. It seems to me that i7 is going to be the first platform that fades out DDR2, and that was always going to happen when we started to see a few LGA775 motherboards using DDR3 again?

So we could see it as, im spending 50% extra to set me up with the direction comp tech is going (ok im only basing this on DDR3 and a new socket but at least its something?).

The Halk said:

The i7 920 isn't a "lot" faster than the Q6600. It's a bit faster, and sure it's on a faster platform. But there's not a massive amount in it.

Click to expand...

Did i read somewhere that i7 only starts to shine when its pushed? Something involving Hyper-threading allows i7 to produce the benchmarks over C2Q when put under stress. Correct me if im wrong.

Thank you Halk for the AMD system alternative, something i will keep in mind and have a look at before i jump into Intel.

Cheers.

When pushed? That sounds like someone is trying to plant a personality on a CPU... All I can think of that meaning is that the particular game being discussed is GPU limited, explaining why the i7 and C2Q come out with the same FPS.

Intel is coming up with a new 'value' platform for i7, which will lead to significantly cheaper motherboards. This might lead to lower ram prices. Korean manufacturing isn't tooled up for DDR3 yet, and the manufacturers have had a very bad year, there's talk of bail outs and I guess they'd use that to tool up maybe? I'm no expert on Korean RAM manufacturing

i7 is better than C2Q and better than PII. But only if you throw a LOT of money at it. It doesn't give good bang for buck.

In your boat I'd give OcUK a phone tomorrow, and ask them about pricing and building the PC.

The specs you've come up with are not from OcUK and to me they look like "headline" specs with little meat on the bones, especially the C2Q one.

It seems to be saying "QUAD CORE! PC-8500 memory! Fastest ATi card ever!" but it's got a limited motherboard, insufficient ram and for a system with that much power spending the extra 20 quid on 1GB of graphics memory is wise.

Does anybody know of a case where they bought into new Core2Duo architecture (so one of the first C2D chips), and their motherboard supported them right through to C2Q 45nm process chips?