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Old 28th Mar 2012, 16:51   #1
Skeeter
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Is a designated residents parking space 'off the road'k

Would my designated parking space for my flat be considered 'off the road' in the context of putting a car there that is SORN'ed?

The space is listed as part of the complete property that my landlord owns, and is therefore listed in our tenancy agreement as land we rent, so it seems to be the same as a driveway on a house? It's in a residents only parking area but is not cut off from the road by any sort of gate, but again this is no different to a driveway.

If its owned by my landlord (and rented by me) does that remove it from being part of the public highway and therefore means a car without tax or insurance can be parked there without penalty?

Edit: and can a mod please change the random K in the thread title to a ? please? Typing on a phone fail.


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Old 28th Mar 2012, 16:58   #2
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Certainly is private property at my flat if that is any help.

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Old 28th Mar 2012, 17:12   #3
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 17:15   #4
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Street view so we can see?

Hard to say without seeing, as it could go either way judging by the description.
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 18:27   #5
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Can't street view as the car park is around the back of the building. I'll grab a shot of Google Maps though.


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Old 28th Mar 2012, 18:33   #6
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Don't you have to insure a car regardless or tax/sorn now? Swear i heard something about that...

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Old 28th Mar 2012, 18:37   #7
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Green dot is the space accessed off the main road through an arch under the coach house where the red arrow is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexisonfire View Post
Don't you have to insure a car regardless or tax/sorn now? Swear i heard something about that...
If a car is taxed it needs to be insured. I can't just suspend my insurance and keep it taxed and leave it on the road. I would have to SORN it too which then requires me keeping it off the road. Its an all or nothing thing now.

But its the fact the land appears to be owned by my landlord which makes me think its not public highway?


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Old 28th Mar 2012, 18:48   #8
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Inside a courtyard? Yeah that's definitely off the road.

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Old 28th Mar 2012, 18:49   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexisonfire View Post
Don't you have to insure a car regardless or tax/sorn now? Swear i heard something about that...
If your vehicle is not SORN'd, it must be insured even if it's off the road.
Basically, if it has tax then it must be insured.

As to the OP's question - "A public road is a road maintained at the public expense, including grass verges and ground adjoining the road".
Best ask the local authority if they maintain it or not.
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 18:57   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PistolPete View Post
If your vehicle is not SORN'd, it must be insured even if it's off the road.
Basically, if it has tax then it must be insured.

As to the OP's question - "A public road is a road maintained at the public expense, including grass verges and ground adjoining the road".
Best ask the local authority if they maintain it or not.
However, a private road or carpark to which the public will expect to be able to access (ie roads which haven't been adopted or supermarket carparks) also require a car to be taxed and insured.
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 18:57   #11
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It is off the road, but it may be considered to be a "public place" as members of the public have access (eg. visitors to the flats). You are required to have insurance if the vehicle is in a public place under the Road Traffic Act.
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 18:58   #12
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I agree, definatly off the road.

I wouldnt be happy leaving it though as if anyone backs into it ect im not sure what the consequences would be due to it being accessable by anyone.
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 19:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alibaba99 View Post
However, a private road or carpark to which the public will expect to be able to access (ie roads which haven't been adopted or supermarket carparks) also require a car to be taxed and insured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueboy2001 View Post
It is off the road, but it may be considered to be a "public place" as members of the public have access (eg. visitors to the flats). You are required to have insurance if the vehicle is in a public place under the Road Traffic Act.
This is where my confusion is. Theres nothing to stop the public accessing a lot of areas (like drive ways) that are not part of the highway. How does this space differ?


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Old 28th Mar 2012, 19:13   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeeter View Post
This is where my confusion is. Theres nothing to stop the public accessing a lot of areas (like drive ways) that are not part of the highway. How does this space differ?
A drive way is private property, they do not have permission to go on it. Am I imagining reading that a car, even when sorn, has to be insured now?

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Old 28th Mar 2012, 19:22   #15
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But if my landlord owns that space and I am renting it, does that not make it private property too? The public have access to the pavement around it and the rest of the car park that isn't spaces, but is the space itself not private?

A SORN'ed car does not have to be insured. A Taxed car does. It's the Taxed bit that's changed. Until recently you could have a taxed car parked on the road without any insurance. In the governments drive to prevent uninsured drivers they changed the rules. What they have actually done though is just make selling a car a right pain.


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Old 28th Mar 2012, 19:23   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexisonfire View Post
A drive way is private property, they do not have permission to go on it. Am I imagining reading that a car, even when sorn, has to be insured now?
A car that is taxed must be insured. If it is sorn it doesn't matter. You used to be able to keep a taxed car without insurance as long as you didn't drive it.

If it is a car park with only resident's parking, I'd expect it to count as off the road.
Last edited by lord filbuster; 28th Mar 2012 at 19:27.
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 20:57   #17
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Not sure on the legal position (there probably isn't one, it would be for a court to decide I suspect), but as I see it the difference between a driveway and a residents parking area being a public place is one of control of the land and who is allowed on it.

On a driveway the owner has ultimate control of who and what comes onto their property. A residents parking area is not directly under the control of any individual - other residents can access the area, as could visitors if there are visitor spaces.
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 21:11   #18
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I'd happily leave a SORN'ed car in that space.
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 21:19   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueboy2001 View Post
On a driveway the owner has ultimate control of who and what comes onto their property. A residents parking area is not directly under the control of any individual - other residents can access the area, as could visitors if there are visitor spaces.
The area they have access too, but the specific confines of the space are mine (my landlords). I don't have a space 'somewhere' in the car park, I have a specific single space, and not any old space labelled so, but a specific space detailed within our tenancy contract and my landlords mortgage. Parking anywhere else would be parking on someone elses land, like parking on someone elses drive?

It seems a bit confusing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG002 View Post
I'd happily leave a SORN'ed car in that space.
At the end of the day its out of sight of everyone except the few other residents and visitors. If it is a problem to park it there then it would take one of those few people to notice and report it before anything happened.

On an interesting side note, my work office is in a residential block so we have 2 carparking spaces in a residential area. Its exactly the same setup as my flat. A car park with designated spaces for each individual flat/office. The only difference is there is a gate with a code to get in. I assume this is definitely private?


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Old 28th Mar 2012, 21:21   #20
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nobody's gonna check it there, so it's harmless.

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Old 28th Mar 2012, 21:29   #21
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From experience of living in a place very similar as long as you are in your bay no one will give a ****

It's when you leave a car not in a space or in a visitor space that the problems arise, And then it's normally only with the building management company.
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 09:19   #22
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According to the copy of a DVLA VED Clamping presentation I have from back when they changed the rules, you can park up SORN vehicles in residential car parks. This includes both privately and housing association owned ones. So you should be fine.

However, residents parking bays directly on the side of a council owned road are not safe.
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 09:58   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZG002 View Post
I'd happily leave a SORN'ed car in that space.
+1

I'd consider that off the road personally. I've had a car SORN'd parked on a raised tarmac section designated as residents parking (and on the deeds) and had no trouble at all.
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 10:49   #24
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Looks like it, but I bet your lease, ground lease, title deeds (whichever is appropriate) has some restriction on leaving SORN'd cars (will be worded differently) in allocated residents spaces.

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Old 29th Mar 2012, 10:54   #25
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Originally Posted by misterPK View Post
However, residents parking bays directly on the side of a council owned road are not safe.
Yeah there is some off the road parking the other side of the main road that is not designated. I was fairly sure it couldn't be left there.

My space looks OK from a DVLA perspective then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HummuH1 View Post
Looks like it, but I bet your lease, ground lease, title deeds (whichever is appropriate) has some restriction on leaving SORN'd cars (will be worded differently) in allocated residents spaces.
They would go into that much detail to specifically restrict the parking of SORN'ed cars?


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Old 29th Mar 2012, 11:49   #26
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Originally Posted by lord filbuster View Post
You used to be able to keep a taxed car without insurance as long as you didn't drive it.
And didn't keep it on a public road.
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 11:56   #27
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Quote:
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They would go into that much detail to specifically restrict the parking of SORN'ed cars?
Like I say, they won't specifically refer to SORN'd cars but in most reasonably modern developments, which that looks like, there are usually restrictions. It will probably refer to things like "not using for vehicle storage", "good and roadworthy condition" when referring to the residents use of the car parking spaces.

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Old 29th Mar 2012, 12:04   #28
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Hmm, but would it still be up to one of the other residents or my landlord (who lives in Belgium) to notice and kick up a stink?


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Old 29th Mar 2012, 12:08   #29
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Hmm, but would it still be up to one of the other residents or my landlord (who lives in Belgium) to notice and kick up a stink?
Yeah, pretty much, but don't underestimate peoples ability to be right idiots about these sort of things.

I doubt it would be an issue tbh but it could be a right ball-ache if you have to move it off site after you've SORN'd it, unless you have a trailer and a 2nd storage location handy.

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Old 29th Mar 2012, 13:04   #30
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Its private property so yes.
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