Would you recommend a degree?

BoonMonkey · 28 Jun 2012 at 14:47

Hey guys,

Right, looking for some serious advice here!

I'm 18, currently working full time as a stock controller after not doing all that well in my A-levels and desperately looking for a job. I've been here a year so far, however I am serious considering moving on to uni if I can get in.

The university will be Bedfordshire on the Bedford campus, not sure if anyone has experience with there?

The course I am considering is this as cyber security interests me, has done for a while.

I was naive in school, however after actually working my work ethic has greatly improved in my opinion, so I believe that I would knuckle down and do as well as I could at university, also being a subject I care about that is more of an incentive also.

In case it matters here are my current qualifications:
GCSEs:
English language: C
English literature: C
Maths: C
Science: B
Additonal Science: C
Graphics: C
BTEC ICT: P (Pass)
Business studies: B
R.E.: D

A-Level:
AS Business: E
AS General studies: E
BTEC Level 3 National Diploma ICT: M (Merit)

NVQ:
Level 2 public services
Level 3 Business administration (Currently doing as part of my work)

CIW:
CIW Web foundations associate

Would I be able to get into university with those grades?

Would it be viable?

Thanks

InKursion · 28 Jun 2012 at 14:52

The best honest advice anyone can give you about degrees is probably this:

There are two paths to take:

Get a 'respected' degree from a 'respected' University, which will give you a good starting platform for graduate employment, a good all-round set of skills, and a piece of paper with a prestigious name/subject on it that will waive you through certain application filters.

Or, if you can't get entry into this sort of 'traditional' high-end University education:

Know exactly what you want to do and what you want to get out of a degree. Look very specifically into vocational courses and courses that are best suited to your career plans and what you want to do for a living. Look into universities with sandwich courses in industry, or close ties to the sort of business you eventually intend to go into. Work hard at this and then apply.

TBH I think if you're just intending to go to some middle or lower rank nowheresville university to do some middling subject, you should really question whether it's worth £9k a year (as most will cost) to do so. Because it will not benefit you in any real conceivable way. The graduate world is just far too competitive. You either need some prestige and contacts to blag your way through early C.V. filtering methods, or you need to show a focus, determination and passion for the specific field you want to go into.

Of course the idealists argument is that university and education in general is good for you and your mind, and should be encouraged. But the reality of this high-talk (which I have a lot of sympathy for, personally) is that not everyone is suited to university education, and it will probably just end up as them taking money from you with no real honest benefit.

Hopefully someone in the IT/Cyber-Security industry can tell you whether or not the Uni. Bedfordshire course is any good. Industry opinion will probably matter.

BoonMonkey · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:02

InKursion said:
The best honest advice anyone can give you about degrees is probably this:

There are two paths to take:

Get a 'respected' degree from a 'respected' University, which will give you a good starting platform for graduate employment, a good all-round set of skills, and a piece of paper with a prestigious name/subject on it that will waive you through certain application filters.

Or, if you can't get entry into this sort of 'traditional' high-end University education:

Know exactly what you want to do and what you want to get out of a degree. Look very specifically into vocational courses and courses that are best suited to your career plans and what you want to do for a living. Look into universities with sandwich courses in industry, or close ties to the sort of business you eventually intend to go into. Work hard at this and then apply.

TBH I think if you're just intending to go to some middle or lower rank nowheresville university to do some middling subject, you should really question whether it's worth £9k a year (as most will cost) to do so. Because it will not benefit you in any real conceivable way. The graduate world is just far too competitive. You either need some prestige and contacts to blag your way through early C.V. filtering methods, or you need to show a focus, determination and passion for the specific field you want to go into.

Of course the idealists argument is that university and education in general is good for you and your mind, and should be encouraged. But the reality of this high-talk (which I have a lot of sympathy for, personally) is that not everyone is suited to university education, and it will probably just end up as them taking money from you with no real honest benefit.

Hopefully someone in the IT/Cyber-Security industry can tell you whether or not the Uni. Bedfordshire course is any good. Industry opinion will probably matter.

Thanks for the quick reply,

Whilst I was at school I never really focused, not because I struggled, just because I was lazy. But like I say, that's changed now. However that is still making me think that Uni isn't for me, but then again it could be!

I'm not sure what the best way to break into the industry would be without said qualifications though, that is why I am considering it as of now.

Hostile-17 · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:03

+1

Nice summary InKursion

InKursion · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:04

It sounds like you're putting in a lot of work to make up for lost time in school, which is obviously great. Perhaps University IS for you, just not through the traditional entry-route - which is fine, many people do it this way. If you have an interest in a specific course, do some research on as many institutions as possible that offer that course (within your entry possibilities). Find out which is genuinely best in terms of industry contacts and graduate employment prospects. University is a lot of money nowadays. There's nothing to say you can't make it count, though.

BoonMonkey · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:15

I am trying my best to get a job in the future which I enjoy and am interested in, that (obvious) earns me a decent living. Right now, the job I have... That isn't going to happen. So I'm putting in as much effort I can into bettering myself. Just I wasn't sure if I could after not having enough UCAS points.

I'll read into which uni has the best industry contacts for this sector though, thanks.

toshj · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:18

How about resitting your A Levels. If you've improved your work ethic, then a year's pause (whilst you resit the exams) has the potential to allow you into a stronger university and therefore obtain a better career for yourself.

Horse Pop · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:20

You're dead right about having an advantage as a mature student. You will go and work and be amazed at how little other people seem to do.

cyber security interests me

Interests you in what way though?

If you want a job in this field like Inkursion said, I'd be pretty wary of just doing any old degree.

Do some research here. Contact companies in this field, recruitment agencies in this field and talk to careers (probably in that order) advisors and find out what they really look for.

I applied for a job with these guys:
http://www.langleyjames.net/

who are a specialist IT recruitment agency. They seemed rather on the ball despite not giving me the job (because they didn't give me the job?).
I'd maybe give them a call and see if they have time to give you some advice on what qualifications these kinds of positions look for.

RomanNose · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:23

You won't be able to get into a respected University with those grades. It's not unreasonable to learn the subjects and sit them at your own pace, so that's what I would do.

InKursion · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:25

toshj said:
How about resitting your A Levels. If you've improved your work ethic, then a year's pause (whilst you resit the exams) has the potential to allow you into a stronger university and therefore obtain a better career for yourself.

This is a possibility. You should really look into the nature of your industry: many careers will be full of people with vocational-focused degrees from business-tied universities, technical and skilled people - which you could still ideally find with your current A-Level results.

Or your industry could be hyper-competitive and full of people with Cyber and CompSci degrees from top universities - the 'prestige' factor. In which case you could take a year or two to resit your A-Levels with your bettered work ethic and stand a shot of entering such a place.

It really depends what the make-up of your industry is.

TNGL · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:26

Have you seen the Guardian's university table? Presuming you want to go in to IT, I wouldn't recommend Bedfordshire. But that's solely based on the Guardian's university table. Have you tried applying for higher access courses? I think it's Moses who took one of these and is now studying law at a Russell Group university.

BoonMonkey · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:32

toshj said:
How about resitting your A Levels. If you've improved your work ethic, then a year's pause (whilst you resit the exams) has the potential to allow you into a stronger university and therefore obtain a better career for yourself.

This was actually something I had thought about at first, but I hadn't thought too much into it. There is a college close by that would allow me that possibility.

Horse Pop said:
You're dead right about having an advantage as a mature student. You will go and work and be amazed at how little other people seem to do.

Interests you in what way though?

If you want a job in this field like Inkursion said, I'd be pretty wary of just doing any old degree.

Do some research here. Contact companies in this field, recruitment agencies in this field and talk to careers (probably in that order) advisors and find out what they really look for.

I applied for a job with these guys:
http://www.langleyjames.net/

who are a specialist IT recruitment agency. They seemed rather on the ball despite not giving me the job (because they didn't give me the job?).
I'd maybe give them a call and see if they have time to give you some advice on what qualifications these kinds of positions look for.

Basically, the job that I strive to have is something of a computer forensic investigator. Preferably in the police. The department that cracks down on online fraud and related online crimes.

Note: Don't think this next statement is my basis for wanting a job in the sector because I think it is "cool"

I have been following the acts of online hackers for a long time. Groups such as anonymous and solo people such as th3j35t3r. What I would want to do is work for an organization (I believe the met police do this?) that works on cracking down on criminals who do such acts (Anonymous).

RomanNose said:
You won't be able to get into a respected University with those grades. It's not unreasonable to learn the subjects and sit them at your own pace, so that's what I would do.

That's understandable, I just wasn't sure how important a respected uni would be. I mean, you get the qualifications. I honestly believed that was all that mattered. But I am wrong it seems!

BoonMonkey · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:35

Sorry for the double post.

InKursion said:
This is a possibility. You should really look into the nature of your industry: many careers will be full of people with vocational-focused degrees from business-tied universities, technical and skilled people - which you could still ideally find with your current A-Level results.

Or your industry could be hyper-competitive and full of people with Cyber and CompSci degrees from top universities - the 'prestige' factor. In which case you could take a year or two to resit your A-Levels with your bettered work ethic and stand a shot of entering such a place.

It really depends what the make-up of your industry is.

If I do spend a year or two doing my A-Levels, would quitting my current job after a year affect employers perspective of me? For example, if I wanted to get a part time job?

Tingle said:
Have you seen the Guardian's university table? Presuming you want to go in to IT, I wouldn't recommend Bedfordshire. But that's solely based on the Guardian's university table. Have you tried applying for higher access courses? I think it's Moses who took one of these and is now studying law at a Russell Group university.

Bedfordshire was solely chosen on the basis of it being close and I wouldn't have to worry about accommodation. I wouldn't care for staying there all too much as the "night life" and "partying" that seems to occur at many universities doesn't interest me.

I'll research into higher access courses though

BoonMonkey · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:36

Moses said:
Yep. I took an Access to Higher Education diploma, and am now studying law, as you say.

Access to HE >>>>>>>>>> redoing A Levels. Trust me. It took one academic year, instead of two. I didn't have to study with kids. Etc.

Brilliant! You're here!

Could you give me some details about this Access to Higher Education? I've not heard of it before.

Sawell · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:38

I was in the same boat as you, didn't use my potential at school, in fact I didn't really get on with the whole educational environment. But once I started working everything changed and I flourished.

Personally I think working seems to be your answer. You've got a passion for technology, I would use that and start to think about how you can make your job better or impact your business via technology. You work in stock management, there's a huge technical market for point-of-sale and inventory management systems, if you work for a huge corporation that has it all 'figured out' then perhaps look to go to a smaller retail outlet that hasn't made the same headway.

I would urge you to leverage your technical nature in the workplace, it's exactly what I did and it really trusted me forward in my career. I now work in systems development/business analysis (coming from an admin job in an HR department).

Uni is fine if you have something you want to do that you need a degree for. Otherwise you're really going for the social aspect, which is also fine, but be careful which you decide!

RomanNose · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:40

BoonMonkey said:
That's understandable, I just wasn't sure how important a respected uni would be. I mean, you get the qualifications. I honestly believed that was all that mattered. But I am wrong it seems!

In this current market it's pretty important, my parents both walked into good jobs from polytechnics but it would be pretty hard to do that now.

InKursion · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:44

Tingle said:
Have you seen the Guardian's university table? Presuming you want to go in to IT, I wouldn't recommend Bedfordshire. But that's solely based on the Guardian's university table. Have you tried applying for higher access courses? I think it's Moses who took one of these and is now studying law at a Russell Group university.

League tables are mostly ********.

The Guardian is the worst one of all to check for actual educational worth... because none of its ranking criteria are based on education. Stuff like student-satisfaction rate highly. The Guardian's table changes so much every year it really is not reliable. Most newspaper tables are crass consumer-guides at best. Rely on them at your peril. Most rankings will have no reality to the academic standing of the university/department, and will be especially divorced from the teaching quality you will pay for and receive.

If you want to check hardcore academic quality, look at the RAE for your Uni/department/course. This is an indication of the academic level of the university. If you want a good idea of industry-contacts, it's best to look at the structure of the degree itself and to ask around. University league tables are very misleading and really are not a good guide for how to spend £9k a year.

Djwayne · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:53

I have a Bsc hons computer forensics from the University of Glamorgan and I did it without the entry requirement due to being a mature student (old fart).

My course took 4 years instead of 3 as I didn't do an access course I did a foundation degree which was then topped up to an honours by my final year.

A few pointers if you want to do forensics firstly pick a good uni , not necessarily the traditional ones you would think of where forensics is concerned.

Glamorgan has one of the best forensic courses in the country although the same can't be said for other subjects there.

Secondly understand your employment prospects post graduation. The chance of you actually getting a job in law enforcement forensics is actually very slim. most police force don't have huge computer forensic teams so vacancies are very limited and to give an example from my course there were 40 graduates who would all be competing for the same positions and that's just one uni.

The private sector is where you will make money although the starting salaries ain't great for graduates. Do some web searching for forensic companies , job adverts and pay scales.

I found the actual course very interesting and thoroughly enjoyed it but since leaving uni I haven't had to apply my forensic skills directly with my job. I have been doing various contract IT roles which are not directly forensic related but which pay well. Its more computer science than forensic science but that pretty much sums up the forensics degree course its 2/3 comp sci and 1/3 forensics.

Hope that helps any questions feel free to ask

anything I don't mind · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:57

You would learn more from youtube than that course. I love the picture of the guy behind the server racks with a smile on his face.

Give us £27000 over three years and this could be you

Russinating · 28 Jun 2012 at 15:59

For a career? Not particularly, depending on what you want to do. For a life experience/growing up/stepping stone into living on your own/the fun etc, then yes

.