Scottish independence referendum deal agreed.

Ahleckz · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:32

David Cameron and Alex Salmond signed a document detailing the terms for the Scottish independence referendum today.

The agreement includes the following:

16 and 17 year old's will be able to vote.
There will only be one question (yes or no).
Referendum has to be done by the end of 2014 (likely to be Autumn 2014).

There is still a bit more to do, namely decide on the exact wording of the question. The Electoral Commission will do this and do tests to ensure it's fair. We are still unsure about campaign funding.

It's quite a historic day to be honest, and I imagine the campaigning will start relatively soon.

We've had countless Scotland threads on here, usually full of xenophobic comments from both sides. So, rather than posing a question for debate I'm just posting this for information.

In the event of a 'Yes' vote, it doesn't mean that Scotland will be breaking from the UK immediately. I imagine it'll take many years to actually achieve that!

Here's some more information:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19942638
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...Union-as-David-Cameron-agrees-referendum.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence

Sonea Fifer · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:35

I personally think there's a lot of work still to be done and many questions will have to answered before I decide yes or no.

james_2k · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:36

Oh god. I'm moving if they get independence.

Castiel · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:36

All hail Fuhrer Salmond.....

starfighter · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:36

It's a bad idea, the human race should be aiming to work with each other. Splitting up a country into smaller ones seems like a backwards step tbh. Fail.

CircleFaust · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:36

will it be the impressionable minds of 16/17 year olds who don't really know what they are voting for that will decide this?

i can say i didn't become politically aware until i was about 30. had better things to do!

Pestilence · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:37

Free battered Mars bar for voting "Yes", tbh.

james_2k · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:38

Indeed. People who watched brave heart too many times as kids

DiCe! · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:39

Stupid idea to let the kids vote. Breaking up the UK would be fail.

Idiots.

Castiel · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:40

Cruiser said:
will it be the impressionable minds of 16/17 year olds who don't really know what they are voting for that will decide this?

i can say i didn't become politically aware until i was about 30. had better things to do!

Probably....the SNP will offer free University Places, Subsidised Alcohol, promise to lower the legal drinking age (you can be trusted to vote but not to drink alcohol/ buy cigarettes, solvents or sharp objects) and give all 16/17 years compulsory pocket money......

Independence assured....

Sonea Fifer · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:42

Castiel said:
All hail Fuhrer Salmond.....

Please don't - that twonks got a big enough head as it is. :rolleyes:

mmj_uk · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:46

It shouldn't be too hard to convince the masses to vote for independence with two years to bombard them with propaganda.

jsmoke · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:46

Don't know what to say. I always thought that any form of nationalism was a bad sign. The desire to cut one selves off and become more insular was not in ones best interests. Maybe there are exceptions to that. The oil boundaries will be heavily disputed in court apparently but then Alex Salmond is a clever man, and an ex economist with the RBS. So he must know a thing or two.

I think at least we should stay as part of the UK. I don't know enough about the economics of things to really say but that I know that the English can be very creative in all fields and they have a good deal of freedom of thought and hence can create a thriving economy.

pingwing · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:53

Groan. Giving 16/17 year olds a voice in this is just irresponsible, they will all be voting for mindless/irrational promises that wont happen, followed by a lot of rioting. I personally feel the rest of the UK should be forced into a referendum on if we accept Scottish independence at all, seems only fair.

I don't see why Scotland would need independence considering the how intertwined it is with the rest of the nations within the UK anyway, and nothing will be gained though full autonomy as the SNP will have to act though the laws of the EU if it wants membership, so it's hardly going to kick all the "dirty southerners" out or be able to do anything different than it can currently.

SNP partaking in the biggest waste of time and money since the UK went to war with Afghanistan, or something equally as pointless.

Conanius · 15 Oct 2012 at 16:54

I think its personally quite an interesting question, and I'd guess that theres a lot of people in Wales now thinking 'we want independence lolz'

I'd be interested to see real facts, from a trusted unbiased source as to whether Wales and Scotland could even really afford independence from the current set up financially. Aren't they two of the poorest countries in Europe?

Ahleckz · 15 Oct 2012 at 17:02

A few people (myself included) were talking about the age issue in This Instant and Moment. I claimed that if you are able to get married, join the armed forces (albeit not see combat until you're 18), go to university, pay taxes and things like that when you are 16/17 then isn't it right that you are given the chance to vote on the future of the country you contribute to?

As for the crazy promises, I suspect that the Electoral Commission will take a dim view on anything irresponsible and outlaw it. They are heavily involved in campaigning, and do a lot of unseen work.

Conanius, real facts don't really exist because there are so many things that we don't know. For example, where the oil revenue goes and who owns which fields. Plus, issues with defence and the like. Financially, these questions are hard to answer before a yes vote because no one wants to answer them through cost/hassle if there is no need.

EdGey · 15 Oct 2012 at 17:04

I couldn't be more against the idea of Scottish independence, and I don't like the idea of 16/17 year olds voting for reasons stated above.

I can see it now... A facebook craze where everyone votes with the crowd to 'see if they can make it happen'.

Castiel · 15 Oct 2012 at 17:06

Ahleckz said:
A few people (myself included) were talking about the age issue in This Instant and Moment. I claimed that if you are able to get married, join the armed forces (albeit not see combat until you're 18), go to university, pay taxes and things like that when you are 16/17 then isn't it right that you are given the chance to vote on the future of the country you contribute to?

I'll move my response to this thread as it is more relevant.

Castiel said:
Not in the rest of UK you can't get married without Parental Permission. I concede this is not the case in Scotland.

However....

You can't join without parental permission and you cannot see any active duty until 18.....you can't legally drink alcohol (in most cases), buy a solvent, buy cigarettes, gamble, represent your constituency, buy fireworks, obtain credit, apply for a mortgage, and a whole range of other things because it is deemed that under 18 you are still a child and (generally) regarded to be to immature to make such decisions without consent or supervision.

If you want 16/17 year old to vote and think they have the maturity and ability as a group to make sound political decisions then they should also have all the other rights that an adult has, including those I mentioned.......

And you do get to have a say in the future of your country..when you are 18, until then, like many other things it is the duty of the Parent/Guardian to assume responsibility for the welfare of their child.

The problem for me is not whether they are allowed to vote or not, to be honest I don't really care one way or the other, but that they can vote but not have the other responsibilities that go with that, along with all the other rights and responsibilities that are conveyed when you are 18, including being called upon to fight in defence of the country, working the same hours as everyone else, being limited to same employment rights as everyone else and so on....if they want to be given the same rights as an Adult to vote then they need also to take all the other rights and responsibilities of being an adult also....one of the biggest issues is being able to vote for someone, but being deemed not old enough to stand against someone.....if you give the vote to 16/17 year old, then you should also lower the age with which they can stand to voted for.....

antijoke · 15 Oct 2012 at 17:10

What would this mean financially for England?

OhEsEcks · 15 Oct 2012 at 17:11

anticonscience said:
What would this mean financially for England?

Cameron and Salmond greasing up and fighting over offshore resources.