Late 90s 'Time' Retro Rig - Advice needed!

Crayfis

Crayfis

Crayfis

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Hi guys,
I've wanted to put together a late 90s desktop for a long time, for using old apps and dos gaming etc. I would really like to install Windows 95 and a period correct graphics card, but I am looking for advice from the knowledgeable posters here on what would be the best OS & graphics card combination to work with my base PC unit while trying to be as 'historically correct' as possible, ie I have heard that that Win95 can be problematic on newer hardware so I might be forced to Win98 etc..

So I recently purchased a really period perfect 'Time' desktop from around 2000ish (I think it must be 2000 because it was bundled with Windows ME!). Its a 850ishMHZ AMD with 512 meg of ram, so its really a bit newer than the period I had in mind, but I'm glad of the extra power, if it doesn't cause more problems that is. Here is it:
v1ys.jpg


I really love the styling, very 90s and much more exciting than most of the beige boxes that proliferated back then. The carry handle is functional too, a really great feature since, like allot of PCs back then, its built like an absolute tank. I got a matching Time branded 17" CRT with it also and even a mechanical mouse (unfortunately not Time branded), so I really want to stick with this base system.

The main game I would like to run well is Quake 3 Arena. Im not bothered about games later than that, but but the system must run Quake 3 and most earlier games, especially dos games, well. To keep with the period theme, I would really like a 3DFX card, although I hear they don't run the Quake engine games brilliantly.. I was actually offered a free Voodoo3 AGPx2 which is perfect, but unfortunately it seems my MB has PCI slots only.

Does anyone know what the small brown slot is marked on my photograph. Its brown like an AGP slot, but seems way too small, and strangely placed to be one?
*The slots are at the top becuase on this system the MB is on the right hand side of the case and upside down*

So, any advice people can give me is very welcome moving forwards.
Will I be able to use Win95? Or will I be forced to use Win98?
What would be the best card for my gaming needs, and to work well on this system, while remaining historically correct?
The power supply is one of those that feeds power 'out' to the monitor also, will I need to replace that if I get a dedicated gfx card or can I just plug my monitor into a separate power socket to ensure enough Wattage?
Can I replace those ribbon cables to tidy the inside up a little, or are that period connectors only available as ribbons?
Any thing else you can think of?

Please keep any suggestions as plain speak as possible, as you can problaby tell I am not the most tech savvy person. Thanks!
 
Will I be able to use Win95? Or will I be forced to use Win98?
What about windows 2000? If not, I'd go 98.

What would be the best card for my gaming needs, and to work well on this system, while remaining historically correct?
A Geforce 2 card would be just about right, but otherwise you're looking at ATI Rage, Riva TNT, Voodoo, PowerVR cards etc

The power supply is one of those that feeds power 'out' to the monitor also, will I need to replace that if I get a dedicated gfx card or can I just plug my monitor into a separate power socket to ensure enough Wattage?
If it's PCI, it should be fine. Most cards back then didn't need seperate power. You've nothing to lose really.

Can I replace those ribbon cables to tidy the inside up a little, or are that period connectors only available as ribbons?
You can get round IDE cables, but I always found folding the standard flat cables and tucking them away achieved similar. It's not as though the round cables were neat anyway.
 
Thanks for the input guys, good to clear up the slot mystery. Just to follow up on some of your feedback.

Might there be an actual problem with installing Win95? You cannot install Win95 on hardware after a certain period no? Might this system have compatibility issues? Win98 seems like the safest bet, and its period correct and has full dos functionality, but still be cool to have 95. Windows ME is ofc the historically correct OS for this PC, which is rare and cool, but I am going for a slightly earlier period (95-99) and more importantly, ME was the first version to remove access to dos which really kills half the reason of this rig. Win 2000 is more a business focused version no? Don't know about dos in that version either.

Good news about the PSU. Watching some vids, even the last Voodoo5 dual GPU only required a molex.

The ribon cables are wrapped round each other really messily, I think maybe because of the strange MB placement. Perhaps I could move the drive bay arrangement round to help this a little too. I'ts got to be tidied up eitherway..

Yes Voodoo2 in SLI config is the setup I always wanted for a retro rig, but I hear that 3dfx doesn't run the Quake Games very well and it could be expensive getting 2 Voodoo2's no?
If I can find a pair of Voodoo2's for a decent price, I'll certainy go for them. I have a feeling a later Voodoo will be a bit more realistic a prospect tho..
Just came accross this vid while doing research. It was high times and all smiles at 3DFX here, just prior to Voodoo2's release:
'3dfx employee interviews 1997 vintage':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIPStpvkSwE
How times changed..

Thanks again guys, more updates soon hopefully.
 
A lot of "branded" PCs from back then had "8MB AGP Graphics for gaming" that turned out to be SiS chipsets that were cheap and well .... rubbish.

Period graphics chipsets would be something like an ATI Rage 128, nVidia Riva TNT, 3Dfx Voodoo 3 or Matrox G400. Back then I think I was probably running a Rage 128 and Voodoo 2 SLI. Three slot solution FTW! Add a sound card, network card and SCSI card and my PC was full so I had to buy an external modem.

Might have a PCI Voodoo 3 2000 n a cupboard somewhere.
 
Magicboy, yeah crazy amounts of expansions needed back then. This is a pretty interesting vid of a guy putting together a no limits, ultimate year 2000 build. So many slots, and thats without a separate 2D-3D setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EipIq8nnwas
One question, why does this guy have 2 soundcards in this setup? I really love the Creative Soundblaster Platinum front bay control panel, one of those would look sick on my setup.
If you want to donate that Voodoo3 PCI to an extremely noble project where it would find purpose and self respect again, let me know ;)

This pc has presumably onboard gfx so I wouldn't need a 2D card whatever setup I get no?

P.S. Anyone fill me in on the Win95 query in my previous post?
 
I think your biggest problem with Win95 will be with USB support. Although Win95 wasn't that bad, Win98 was much better - Win98 SE (Second Edition) is the version to go for, if you can grab hold of it, due to it being much more stable.

I know you said you wanted a retro rig, but how about using CF or SD cards as storage, instead of harddrive? It's all very well wanting that ye olde feeling of slow harddrives, but it soon becomes tiresome. On a similar note, try to max out the memory too.
 
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I had a CUSL2 back in the day running a P3-700E overclocked to 933MHz with FOP32 cooler from OcUK. It was a tad noisy!

Not sure why he's put that Terratec soundcard in. High quality and excellent for making your own music. 99% of people would have been happy with the SoundBlaster Live.

Windows 95/98 can only use 1GB of RAM. I believe they start doing odd things with any more. 256MB would be more than enough.
 
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Sounds like I could be ok with Win95. I only have 512MB Ram and not planning on USB peripherals. I actually have my eye on an external Iomega Zip100 parallel port dive for this! Although using the mechanical mouse could become tiresome, they still make PS2 optical mice right?
Win 98SE was a great OS for sure, I may still end up installing that.

Not too worried about the Hard Drives, wan't to keep it all period and the games I'll be running are all pretty small. Might even run some off Zip!
 
Crayfis said:
Oh that could still be real handy tom. Did you do add in a new card or do any other alterations? You could give me some advice on compatibility and such.

P.S really handy page for people looking to use 3DFX cards now:
http://helppage.3dfx.sk
Click to expand...

No I didn't im afraid. It was pretty much my first PC and I was fairly young so I didn't have a clue what was in it :( I know that it came with Windows ME on it, and the previous owner loaded XP onto it.
 
Just an update on some swag for the project thats coming together nicely:

*Got 'mint' copies of Win98 & 95 donated from my good friend Deryck along with some new IDE Cables to tidy up the wiring a bit. The Win 98 CD has the holographic Windows clouds all over it and is just about the coolest (and most 90s) CD I've ever seen. Win 95 would be cool, but Im going with 98 as I think it will just be much smoother and more functional, while still retaining that classic 90s dos integrated experience.

*A copy of 'Windows 95 for Dummies' for 99p from e-bay. I have a copy of 'Netscape and the World Wide Web For Dummies' coming also :)

*A Creative 3D Blaster Banshee that I got for a fantastic £5 from ebay user Neil and his bro who saw the thread and were into the project. Although its not branded as such, this is a 3DFX Voodoo Banshee based card, which itself is a stripped down Voodoo 2 with more memory (16mb) and 2D chipset. This was the best option to go with I think. Voodoo2's in SLI would have been the ultimate, but are expensive and Im not sure how they would work on a system with an integrated graphics chipset since they used that clunky pass through cable tech to get 2D functionality. The later Voodoo cards get mad expensive also, so a Voodoo3 / Banshee was just right in terms of price, compatibility and 'historical accuracy'.
Interestingly, I've since found out that this pc has an integrated NVIDIA Riva TNT2 M64. This like the Banshee, is a stripped down version the companies main gaming card, the TNT2, a direct rival to the early 3DFX cards that helped Nvidia defeat and eventually absorb 3DFX. Its a 32meg card with 32bit texture support (compared to 16) and DirectX 6.1 support (compared to DX3), some of the reasons 3DFX started to fall behind, but this rig is staying Voodoo :)

*Finally I got a couple of 3DFX stickers from ebay to go on the case to show my brand loyalty :)

796u.jpg
 
Aw man this brings back memories :) I had one of those Creative 3D Blaster Banshee cards I bought cheap while on holiday in Hong Kong. Paired up with my Cyrix 233 CPU, I could just about play the first AVP game @ 800x600 lol.

I remember many happy hours of playing Motocross Madness :D
 
Ha, reminds me of my first Gateway 450Mhz.

When I got it and upgraded it to 13GB hard drive, one of the techs at work asked if I was running NASA ! Looks a really interesting build mate.
 
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