Chinese cars

SkyTerran · 10 Sep 2023 at 17:40

Looks like the sales of Chinese cars in UK are rising. MG offers probably the best deals on EVs. Volvo (don't know if one can count it as Chinese, but it's 100% owned by a Chinese company) has a huge wait list from what I hear.

Recently watched a few reviews from China for cars such as BYD SONG (which seems to have replaced VW and Toyota as the most popular taxi car in China). And it looks like the 80 or so car companies in China are making huge progress and are soon to leave the Germans far behind.

Especially with EVs China has a huge advantage over Germany - it makes and exports batteries, while German car makers have to import batteries from S. Korea and China. Also the Chinese have a huge range of models, from very cheap city cars with 50 or a 100 miles range to huge SUVs full of tech, like lidars. And unlike the German brands, the entry level cheap cars get a ton of tech for free.

SkyTerran · 10 Sep 2023 at 19:47

Tom_ed1987 said:
If you buy one you are essentially directly supporting the CCP.

OK, but if you buy an iPhone assembled in China do you support the CCP?

A huge part of the products on the shelves of our shops are made in China. Most European EVs have batteries made in China - and the battery is the most expensive part of an EV.

SkyTerran · 11 Sep 2023 at 08:47

Terminal_Boy said:
Are these Chinese cars independently tested in Europe for compliance to EU/TüV/CE safety standards?

Of course, in some categories the top scores are hold by Chinese cars.

SkyTerran · 11 Sep 2023 at 08:59

XeNoN89 said:
Belarus is full of Chinese EVs. When I was there I was constantly seeing cars and car brands that I've never seen before. Even saw a load with Chinese number plates, looks like they directly import them.

I think a few of the big Chinese companies have car assembly plants in Belarus, probably mainly working for the Russian market (after the European and the American car makers left it is now dominated by the Chinese).

SkyTerran · 11 Sep 2023 at 15:56

Skilid said:
I don't think I've seen a single attractive Chinese designed car. They're all ugly, including the MG4. Some of the reviews show cheap materials, bad translations on infotainment systems and poorly programmed charging/battery monitoring systems leading to odd behaviour. I don't think their QC is as good as other manufacturers. We have no idea the quality of the materials being used in these cars and as regulation in China is pretty poor I wouldn't be surprised if they've cut corners in safety etc.

Cheap != Good. I'd rather pay more and have something that is better built and that I have more confidence in.

All the Chinese companies pay western designers to do the designs of their cars. People who previously worked for the like of BMW, Bugatti, Volvo, Mercedes, etc. So don't think Chinese cars look any different from the European ones.

SkyTerran · 11 Sep 2023 at 18:24

I think you're underestimating how much the Chinese are willing to invest to gain market share in profitable markets. Anything that German car manufacturers can afford in terms of machinery and materials, Chinese companies financed by the state banks can match.

If you're comparing the car market to TV market - have a look how many TVs are made in Germany (probably 0) and how many in China (biggest TV manufacturer in the world probably).

SkyTerran · 14 Sep 2023 at 11:20

tyke_ said:
Not sure i'd buy a Chinese designed and built car. They know how to build things but imo their software often has bugs or glitches, a Chinese EV will have a lot of software running.

Many Chinese car companies actually use car software produced by the like of Huawei (Harmony OS based) or have partnered with big tech like Microsoft to make their own and they try to emulate what Tesla has on their cars.

SkyTerran · 17 Sep 2023 at 22:57

SkyTerran · 11 Oct 2023 at 00:09

China's government invested 60B USD in EV battery tech. I'd guess the UK government also has billions of pounds in similar innovation budgets, curious what are they being invested in.

SkyTerran · 19 Oct 2023 at 09:01

SkyTerran · 21 Oct 2023 at 03:38

A Norwegian guy doing interesting testing/reviews of EVs, by driving a 1000km in Norway:

TB test results

License: CC0 (Public Domain)

docs.google.com

Between the new 40K quid Tesla 3 and the Chinese EVs like MG and https://gwmora.co.uk/ there's very little space left for the other EV cars. Sure some people will buy a BMW, VW, Jaguar, Fiat, Kia or Mercedes, but most will check the reviews online and on YT before buying and realize that Tesla and the Chinese cars offer far better value.

Too bad Tesla doesn't know what the word privacy means. Anything you do in or around a Tesla will be recorded and sent to Tesla servers (and made available to Tesla employees to enjoy). Park a Tesla in front of your house and same applies to your home.

SkyTerran · 21 Oct 2023 at 06:40

Maybe you're right, but I have a different opinion.

Making an EV is far simpler than making an ICEV, which gives better chances for new companies to compete with the established ones. The electric motor is far simpler and has far fewer parts than a petrol or a diesel motor. One can license complete car software from the likes of Huawei, Microsoft, Intel, Qualcomm. Even the established brands buy most of the car parts - batteries, gear boxes, seats, wheels, etc. from third parties. Starting a new car company and turning profit in China takes a lot less money - millions, not billions.

A few years ago people in the West didn't know who Huawei, Oppo, Xiaomi, Vivo were, but when they saw them selling good quality smart phones cheaper than the likes of Simens, Nokia, Sony, etc. a lot of the customers quickly switched. When a buyer sees that a BMW EV with a 400 miles range costs 50K, while a decent MG with the same range is 30K brand status and loyalty won't stop a lot of peaple from buying the cheaper car.

SkyTerran · 9 Nov 2023 at 08:10

Interesting what the price in UK is going to be.

SkyTerran · 20 Nov 2023 at 05:48

SkyTerran · 22 Dec 2023 at 08:34

Russian EV prototype :cry:

SkyTerran · 22 Dec 2023 at 23:42

SkyTerran · 28 Feb 2024 at 18:18

SkyTerran · 30 Mar 2024 at 19:26

Nasher said:
Thing is the Japanese never really used to plan/build in obsolescence. They used the best materials and quality control was far beyond others. But that isn't what modern business likes :/

I can't ever see Chinese cars making it to the top tbh. Their way is to just pump out cheap products in huge numbers.

Have you tried a modern Chinese phone, like Xiaomi, Huawei, Honor, Oppo, Vivo, Realme, Redmi, OnePlus, Poco? They have amazing build quality.

China is the world factory and most products on the shelves of Western shops are made in China, including expensive ones. E.g. Apple phones are assembled by Chinese factories. Most laptops on the UK market are assembled in China. Most home and commercial appliances sold in UK are made in China.

The idea that China can only make cheap, low quality products may have been correct in the 90s, but I think you need to open your eyes and see that China's industry has changed

SkyTerran · 30 Mar 2024 at 19:52

Yes, as any modern industry assembly is separate from parts production. E.g. do you think that a Nissan plant in UK makes the engine parts, seats, wheels, tyres, sensors, processors, battery, etc. that go in a Nissan car?

SkyTerran · 31 Mar 2024 at 02:36

I think you're right. The main reason this will happen is China government invested 60 billion dollars into EV battery tech, the funds were managed by smart engineers with industry experience and now Chinese companies have the best and cheapest EV batteries. On the other hand US, EU, UK had far more money in their innovation funds, but they were and are being mis-managed.