Intel Core Ultra 'Arrow Lake' Discussion/News ("15th gen") on LGA-1851

[Dave2150]

Was always hoping that Arrow lake would be on LGA1700 but alas! It's gonna be a difficult decision to swap to this or AMD when the time comes as i'll need to swap boards anyway.

Intel need more pins to achieve parity with AMD, as in being able to use 16x PCI-Ev5 lanes for GPU and 4x lanes for a gen5 SSD.

That said, Samsung (the market leader) seem to wait for Intel to be ready before they release a Pro series gen5 SSD, one that's actually faster than the 990 Pro gen4 drives of today. Bit of a shame, as AM5 has been ready to go for Samsung pro gen5 SSD's for a long time.

 

[RSR]

Intel need more pins to achieve parity with AMD, as in being able to use 16x PCI-Ev5 lanes for GPU and 4x lanes for a gen5 SSD.

That said, Samsung (the market leader) seem to wait for Intel to be ready before they release a Pro series gen5 SSD, one that's actually faster than the 990 Pro gen4 drives of today. Bit of a shame, as AM5 has been ready to go for Samsung pro gen5 SSD's for a long time.

What can you do on a Gen 5 NVMe that you can't do on the Gen 4 NVMe?

If you need that type of I/O, I'd argue you are on the wrong platform completely

 

[jigger]

All that matters is performance at the end of the day, not who has the most cores, cache or highest frequency.

I still think it's a tall ask for Arrow Lake to beat Raptor Lake (or Raptor Lake refresh) in games - as frequency is king here and the new process will not be clocking at 6.2 Ghz.

That said, Arrow Lake will be a huge improvement in power efficiency for Intel, possibly matching or beating Zen5.

Maybe that’s all you care about, but Intel aren’t interested in what you want and no, that’s not all that matters. Price, yield, power consumption, scalability….

Arrow lake from a CPU point will be just another flavour of lake. Intels strategy at least short to medium term, is pretty much anything other than CPU core performance, like beefed up iGPU and dedicated accelerators etc.

Intel: Accelerators, accelerators, accelerators!

Intel: AI everywhere!

 

[Armageus]

Intels strategy at least short to medium term, is pretty much anything other than CPU core performance, like beefed up iGPU and dedicated accelerators etc.

Seems to work alright for Apple

 

[Minstadave]

Seems to work alright for Apple

Apple have cracked efficiency though, Intel is going completely the opposite direction.

 

[jigger]

Seems to work alright for Apple

Works alright for Intel too?

 

[Armageus]

Works alright for Intel too?

Depends how well you can control the Narrative. Apple has an easier task as there's less multiplatform benchmarks to compare, so easy to say that the latest Apple chip is the world's fastest in xyz circumstance.

While Intel can obviously force their preferred reviewers to downplay any weaknesses (e.g. power draw) and show the product in the best light, 3rd party reviewers aren't subject to such restrictions.

 

[jigger]

Depends how well you can control the Narrative. Apple has an easier task as there's less multiplatform benchmarks to compare, so easy to say that the latest Apple chip is the world's fastest in xyz circumstance.

While Intel can obviously force their preferred reviewers to downplay any weaknesses (e.g. power draw) and show the product in the best light, 3rd party reviewers are subject to such restrictions.

I meant Intels dedicated hardware accelerators, they are Intels best bits of silicon. On the CPU front Intel are just meh.

 

[Dave2150]

What can you do on a Gen 5 NVMe that you can't do on the Gen 4 NVMe?

If you need that type of I/O, I'd argue you are on the wrong platform completely

There are no "proper" Gen5 SSD's out (by proper I mean a Samsung Pro version) - so we don't yet know. I'd expect higher IOPS and higher transfer speeds at various queue depths.

990 Pro (Gen4) still has ~36MB/s random read, for single threaded tasks. This is often the bottleneck in windows. Though improvements to this obviously don't depend on the drive being gen5 - it's just how it works - Samsung give the new architecture/design the latest PCI-E gen.

 

[RSR]

There are no "proper" Gen5 SSD's out (by proper I mean a Samsung Pro version) - so we don't yet know. I'd expect higher IOPS and higher transfer speeds at various queue depths.

990 Pro (Gen4) still has ~36MB/s random read, for single threaded tasks. This is often the bottleneck in windows. Though improvements to this obviously don't depend on the drive being gen5 - it's just how it works - Samsung give the new architecture/design the latest PCI-E gen.

Then how do you explain Intel Optaine drives for example from a 905P to a P5800X, as those drives will easily outperform these Gen 4/5 drives for random read and writes?

So I will ask the question again, what would a Gen5 drive bring to the table that a Gen 4 won't? As I can see it there is no real-world benefit to your average desktop user at the moment, heck we don't have many direct storage games yet.

 

[Grim5]

It's not an issue with the controller nor the PCIE connection, so a gen5 drive even with a new controller will not fix weak random read performance

These issues are related to the type of memory these drives use and Optane drives uses a completely different type of memory to everyone else's drives

All memory types can fit on a ranking system, where your lower level types like RAM are fast and your slower types like NAND is higher up. These PCIE gen Nvme drives all use NAND memory, and NAND
memory is slower than 3D Xpoint memory used in Optane

Unfortunately Optane died because data centres and servers don't need low latency, fast random read expensive storage drives, they went with cheap NAND SSD's instead and this killed the Optane drive.



The core problem with storage media today is that what us consumers want doesn't matter. All the Nvme makers don't give two craps about us gamers, they will keep feeding us junk NAND storage for consumption because it's what their real customers want. Businesses by far buy the most storage drives and the storage media industry is catered completely around the demands and need of businesses

 

[jigger]

Then how do you explain Intel Optaine drives for example from a 905P to a P5800X, as those drives will easily outperform these Gen 4/5 drives for random read and writes?

So I will ask the question again, what would a Gen5 drive bring to the table that a Gen 4 won't? As I can see it there is no real-world benefit to your average desktop user at the moment, heck we don't have many direct storage games yet.

Jigger strokes gen 4 ruler backplane filled with X-point goodness.

 

[Dave2150]

Then how do you explain Intel Optaine drives for example from a 905P to a P5800X, as those drives will easily outperform these Gen 4/5 drives for random read and writes?

So I will ask the question again, what would a Gen5 drive bring to the table that a Gen 4 won't? As I can see it there is no real-world benefit to your average desktop user at the moment, heck we don't have many direct storage games yet.

Think you need to chill out, I'm not on trial here, you make it sound like I am

Personally, I enjoy the feeling of upgrading my boot SSD to one with greater overall performance. Last upgrade I did was from a 980Pro to a 990Pro (both Gen4 drives). There was a small, but noticeable difference in the responsiveness of my system, for my specific workflows.

I look forward to a similar, or larger jump, when a Samsung gen5 Pro SSD releases.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel Arrow Lake Now Core Ultra 200 : Everything Else We Know So Far​

Intel Arrow Lake Now Core Ultra 200 : Everything Else We Know So Far

Intel will release a major update to its processor line up this year with its the launch of its 15th Generation Arrow Lake processors under Core Ultra 200 branding

www.forbes.com

Nice summary of what we know so far

 

[Dave2150]

Intel LGA-1851 socket has been pictured, coming to Core Ultra 200 series later this year​

Intel LGA-1851 socket has been pictured, coming to Core Ultra 200 series later this year - VideoCardz.com

LGA-1851 pictured, launching for Meteor Lake-PS, coming to Arrow Lake-S later this year The LGA-1851 socket has been pictured up close for the first time. LGA-1851 socket, Source: ComputerBase Intel, alongside its partners, unveiled the latest LGA-1851 socket at the Embedded World 2024 event...

videocardz.com

 

[Dg834man]

Intels next generation of bendy cpus coming soon.

 

[Dave2150]

Intels next generation of bendy cpus coming soon.

LGA1700 was a pretty terrible socket to be fair. Having to use contact frames to get decent temperatures is just pure fail. LGA-1851 doesn't bode well as it's even larger!

 

[Rroff]

I miss the built-in reinforced backplate of socket 2011. Intel need to stop being cheap on stuff like this and the PCI-e lane provisioning.

 

[RSR]

LGA1700 was a pretty terrible socket to be fair. Having to use contact frames to get decent temperatures is just pure fail. LGA-1851 doesn't bode well as it's even larger!

As far as I have seen the socket is the same size, as they are both 37.5 x 45 mm.

 

[chaparral]

I miss the built-in reinforced backplate of socket 2011. Intel need to stop being cheap on stuff like this and the PCI-e lane provisioning.

Am sure my Z790 motherboard has a CPU reinforced back plate