yeah but our boys are going to be class though
anyway i really do have to go out. bye bye.
Liverpool FC - Official Thread
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yeah but our boys are going to be class though
anyway i really do have to go out. bye bye.
I know, I wasn't having a go, probably forgot to place a smiley in my post which made it look like I was being arsy but I wasn't
You mean you haven't got anything to back-up your views (which has been the case in the last couple of debates we've had) and then you realise i was right all along
My views are based on what I see and believe, no statistics can change my view of Rafa.
Infact I would say my views on Liverpool are just common sense, which some people (mainly Liverpool fans) fail to see. Although Pigeon Killer is more realistic most of the time (ignoring my sig ofcourse
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oh and i never agreed with leaving Torres out (see my first post) just accept Rafa's reasons and fully trust him
I was talking about the 'Carra whining' incident where your view was based on a presumption.
Infact I would say my views on Liverpool are just common sense, which some people (mainly Liverpool fans) fail to see. Although Pigeon Killer is more realistic most of the time (ignoring my sig ofcourse
and your views are? Pigeon is the most pecimistic person in the world (though a decent guy) and would proberly find something to complain about if we won our next 10 games 4-0
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I was talking about the 'Carra whining' incident where your view was based on a presumption.
and your views are? Pigeon is the most pecimistic person in the world (though a decent guy) and would proberly find something to complain about if we won our next 10 games 4-0
Sorry that was ages ago, what did I say?
Pigeon is the most realistic Liverpool fan on here in my opinion. My "views" are that Liverpool fans expect too much of their team and fail to see that they aren't as good as they think.
A perfect example of this is the many debates over who should be CB for England. I don't think ANYONE other than Liverpool fans selected Carragher. And those fans swore blindly that he should be in the team.
I'm not gonna start an argument because I wanna hit the sack soon and I don't wanna derail the thread. I just have opinions on Liverpool, thats all.
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I don't think Babel is a bad signing at all. The £11m for a player of his potential could be very good business and seem as small a figure as £12m did for Ronaldo, all those years ago - even though many opposition fans (to United) including myself were sniggering at the price increase of the then touted £7m.
Add into the fact I had watched Ronaldo play in a Under 21 game just before his move to England (in which he was totally ineffective) - everyone was happy.
I just think before Babel's signing - it was all about a getting a winger in. We had been linked with the likes of Alves all summer (and a few windows before that), Quaresma and Ludovic Guily. When we signed Babel in the unexpected way we did, I was hoping for a bit more to follow that.
I believe Benitez's thinking behind signing both Babel and Benayoun was that they were both flank-capable. Problem was that despite a very impressive appearance on right wing against Villa (from Babel), I always thought of him more as a winger and Benayoun, as a central attacking player. Spearhead of a 5 in midfield to be precise.
Yossi will probably be fine as he has a good year of experience in the league. Not only that but he has the experience of age and the International level to keep him going. Babel, who was explosive against Villa is relatively new to the scene at the top level and a move to one of the best clubs in one of the best leagues will be something hard to take on board, no matter how good you may be.
Add onto that, he may be playing more of a winger role than floating striker without defensive responsibilites (which he seemed to be at Ajax) then it's going to be even harder.
I normally don't worry too much about a player's mentality but Babel recently came out and said Rafa was helping him deal with not getting put off by opposition supporters, I was quite surprised. It's the sort of thing you would expect any professional footballer to deal with and not be affected by.
That wasn't the sole basis for my opinion of him, I just do think we need to be careful not to damage the boy (he's older than me) by expecting too much or rushing his development. Not every player is going to react like Torres when the pressure is on and that pressure can ruin players and more importantly their development.
I have no fears that he won't be given the best of the best and Benitez won't lie him die in the corner of the dressing room, but from being one of the best strikers / attackers in the Eredivisie who played regularly to getting a substitutes appearance here and there and perhaps not showing all you are capable of will take a lot of (what will be) unrecognised hard work.
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You critisised Carra for retiring from Internationals because he was whining about not getting in the side (and claimed that he whined about it to a paper and radio statio), when in actual fact he stated (in the paper and on the radio) that he had no problem with the decision but just felt the time was right for him to concentrate on Liverpool, just like Scholes did for Utd which you said was different.
I also haven't forgot you calling me ignorant for saying Utd were as good as through vs Lille then 3-4 days later you said the same thing about a Chelsea game.
Just in case this comes across in the wrong way, i hold no hard feelings towards you
You critisised Carra for retiring from Internationals because he was whining about not getting in the side (and claimed that he whined about it to a paper and radio statio), when in actual fact he stated (in the paper and on the radio) that he had no problem with the decision but just felt the time was right for him to concentrate on Liverpool, just like Scholes did for Utd which you said was different.
I also haven't forgot you calling me ignorant for saying Utd were as good as through vs Lille then 3-4 days later you said the same thing about a Chelsea game.
Just in case this comes across in the wrong way, i hold no hard feelings towards you
I think my point was that Scholes didn't feel the need to phone up a radio station to let the world know. He just went about it quietly and nothing major was said about it, whereas Carragher acted a bit like a spoilt child not getting his way.
Regarding Lille, that was probably because we had a 1-0 lead which was nothing. You can't predict much from that considering our relatively poor performances leading upto that. It was just common sense not to expect us to be as good as through.
And no, same towards you as well. Both have very strong opinions about our clubs thats all.
I don't think Babel was signed simply because we needed a winger, the way Rafa has spoke about Babel he was a player that he had is eye on for a while and felt he had the raw materials to become a top player, whether that was as a striker (which he has played for us since joining) or winger and took the chance to sign him before somebody else did (he actually mentioned the U-21 Euro's being the reason why we moved for him this year just in case somebody else did).
Regarding the not damaging the boy part, i think thats exactly the reason he's played a bit part towards the start of the season, he's undoubtedly got amazing natural ability but Rafa's trying to bring him into the side slowly so that he can adapt to the game without having the pressure put straight on him.
I wouldn't worry too much about his mentality, i would imagine many 20 year olds would be affected by fans getting on there back but im sure he'll learn to get on with it with age and i also doubt he'll get the abuse he got in Holland over here.
Carra phoned up to defend himself from the personal abuse he was getting not to complain about his lack of games and the Chelsea game was a league game away from home iirc. I know if i were to say one were as good as through or as good as won it would be half way through a tie 1-0 and at home rather than the start of an away match
But thats in the past
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Regarding Babel I think Liverpool fans should be of the same opinion as United fans regarding Nani, and thats to just wait and see.
Thats one point I wanted to make though, I do feel Rafa buys players on a whim. I'm not convinced he even knew who Babel was before the u21 championships despite what he's said. And the signings of Bellamy and Pennant seemed to be a "oh they'll do" kind of transfer. Kuyt as well, I don't think he made much planning into any of these signings.
Thats one point I wanted to make though, I do feel Rafa buys players on a whim. I'm not convinced he even knew who Babel was before the u21 championships despite what he's said. And the signings of Bellamy and Pennant seemed to be a "oh they'll do" kind of transfer. Kuyt as well, I don't think he made much planning into any of these signings.
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yes that one way of looking at carra's response, but i for one think he had every right to lambast the reporter for saying he had no bottle.. in a this day and age where players care more for their image and wage packet i applaud his actions as it shows he's not lost his roots and cares about his performaces for his supporters and employers ... we pay his wages and we want him to be fit for liverpool because club football comes first
Babel himself pointed out that he was shocked at how much Benitez knew about him, iirc he said Rafa knew more than he did about him.
I don't think the Bellamy or Pennant signings were 'they'll do' but more 'i need a forward and rm and thats all i can afford' so rather than go without he took them on knowing that worst case he'll get his money back the next summer (in fact we made a nice profit on Bellamy). You could argue that they were 'panic buys' but they were fool proof in terms that he couldn't afford his main targets and that he would be better off with them than with nobody (and like i said we could get our money back next summer).
Kuyt certainly wasn't a panic buy or a buy without any thought, we had tried to sign Kuyt the previous summer and again last January and you can see from our selections that he's been one of Rafa's most important players and somebody he thinks very highly of.
Well the way I see it is if you have your eye on a good young player who's about to head off to a fairly well publicised tournament, you'd make your move prior to the tournament. As it stands I think Benitez probably paid a few million more than he should have, and to most people I think it looks like a signing made simply because he was brought to the managers attention in the euro's.
Not that thats a bad thing thats just how it looks to me. You're gonna come back and say about us paying so much for Nani and Anderson. Well Nani was always going to be expensive because of the precedence set by Ronaldo, and as for Anderson Porto obviously played hard ball.
Now its bedtime!
Not that thats a bad thing thats just how it looks to me. You're gonna come back and say about us paying so much for Nani and Anderson. Well Nani was always going to be expensive because of the precedence set by Ronaldo, and as for Anderson Porto obviously played hard ball.
Now its bedtime!
Like i said in a post above, Rafa actually said that we made our move this year because of his performances in the euro's and ideally we would have waited another season, iirc the same reason Utd signed Ronaldo a year early.
We certainly did pay a few £m too much because of his exceptional performace (iirc he was player of the tournement?) but the fact that Babel had a clause in his deal meaning he got 50% of any fee above £6m meant that he was never going to really push Ajax to lower there demands in order to gain a move.
Even if he did only learn of Babel during the euro's (which i would be shocked was the case), you have to find out about a player at some point.
Yep we haven't played well since the Derby game which coincided with the international break and then losing 2 of our most important players (Agger and Alonso).
Hopefully this International break will bring different fortunes and the impending return of Alonso and Agger (both could play vs Everton though Alonso is the only one likely to return by then) can only be good news.
This thread is going to be great for my post count
insightful posts of this quality dont come along very often ..
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