So who's reduced their carbon footprint?

[Glaucus]

The Americans do want change, but as Dolph says - not at the expense of serious economical damage. Why should they self harm when China etc sit by and rub their hands together and watch the cash roll in?
.

Because none of the do-gooder hippies. Even think about economies. Just that every kilo of co2 reduced must be a great thing, even if co2 is still on the rise. China will not harm it's economy. We are already struggling to keep up with china, let alone trying to keep up with it whilst shooting are self in the foot.

Snip.

Because oil is still cheaper than the alternative, not only is the oil cheaper, but we don't have the infrastructure for alternatives. So although it would be nice to secure our owwn energy it can't be rushed. Nothing wrong with having a more fuel efficient fleet for companies and many do. But to force it onto us drivers is stupid,m doesn't lower co2 and is an ineffective policy.


Going to alternatives to fast, certainly will damage the economy.

 

[clv101]

But to force it onto us drivers is stupid,m doesn't lower co2 and is an ineffective policy.

No it's not stupid - we should be forced to improve vehicle fleet efficiency in the name of the national economy (not CO2 as oil demand side actions do nothing for global CO2 levels, but that’s a debate for another day). My favoured way of doing this is very high road tax for the inefficient cars and no road tax for efficient one - with the bar moving for both each year. And product standards which establish minimum efficiency levels - again with the bar moving each year.

Roughly something along these lines:

• From 2008, no car/light truck can be sold in UK with a combined fuel efficiency <20mpg
• Annual road tax would range from £1000 to zero between the most inefficient and the >60mpg

The following year and each year up to 2020, the minimum threshold and the threshold for zero road tax increases by 2mpg.

This is all for new cars - there will be gradually reducing grandfathering rules for the existing fleet.

This kind of policy could more than double fleet efficiency by 2020 and save the trade deficit ~£30bn a year - at today's prices or considerably more if oil prices increase in real terms.

 

[Glaucus]

Thats a stupid policy.

I could drive a 1mpg car but only drive it 10miles per week. That is going to use a lot less fuel than a 50mpg car traveling 1000miles a week. That policy is flawed and stupid.

If you rarely want to secure our fuel sources and save money. You would implement nano particle metal fuel. Runs with very very little mods to a petrol engine, 100% recyclable. Build some huge windfarms of the cost and you can even reduce it back to fuel relatively cheaply (longterm).

There's a few really good alternative to oil for transport, just no infastructure and no interest. Due to the huge cost of set up.

 

[InSanCen]

my carbon footprint will go UP when i get space to build my trike (5.3L V12 Jag)... and i'm quite happy about it too...

Global warming my ****

 

[atpbx]

I just bought shoes that were half a size smaller.

(apologies if this gag has been used already)
actually, that will go some way to helping global warming by recycling surely?

No, that was a bad gag.

 

[Glaucus]

my carbon footprint will go UP when i get space to build my trike (5.3L V12 Jag)... and i'm quite happy about it too...

Global warming my ****

got any plans for it, what parts you planning on doing?

I want to build a trike around a supercharged new create engine.
Something stretched and curvy.

 

[energy]

I really don't give a damn about my CO2 footprint. Whenever I hear some stupid advert on the radio about CO2, low emissions zones, congestion charging or any carbon neutral company I change the channel. I'm sick of this recent obsession with CO2. Perhaps they have forgotten that CO2 is not the only substance that causes problems with the environment. A car, for instance, does not just put out CO2. We'd be lucky if thats all it did!

I always save electricity & gas and also recycle, simply because I don't like wastage as a principal and like to keep my bills as low as possible.

But I drive whatever car takes my fancy, even to the supermarket which is 5 minutes walk away. We only live once. Look at a map and the UK is so small in comparison to anything else that it couldn't possibly make a difference whether the whole nation drove around in Lamborghini Diablos or Lupo TDis.

So.. till the rest of the world starts to give a damn, I'll be redlining my car everywhere!

 

[[TW]Fox]

No it's not stupid - we should be forced to improve vehicle fleet efficiency in the name of the national economy (not CO2 as oil demand side actions do nothing for global CO2 levels, but that’s a debate for another day). My favoured way of doing this is very high road tax for the inefficient cars and no road tax for efficient one - with the bar moving for both each year. And product standards which establish minimum efficiency levels - again with the bar moving each year.

So you want to prevent people having, say, a Ferrari F599 which they polish every week and take out perhaps once or twice a month, yet you've no problem with people driving 30-40k a year in BMW 320d's?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Look at a map and the UK is so small in comparison to anything else that it couldn't possibly make a difference whether the whole nation drove around in Lamborghini Diablos or Lupo TDis.

This is true. If the whole UK car fleet turned into Range Rover Sports, the increase in global C02 emissions would not register.

Ditto, if we all stopped driving tommorrow, the increase in global C02 emissions would not register.

Nothing the UK does has any real impact on the world situation. Nothing. All we can ever hope to do is lead by example - effectively sacrificing our economy to make a point that people like China will NEVER listen to. We've had our industrial revolution, they are not having theirs.

 

[InSanCen]

got any plans for it, what parts you planning on doing?

I want to build a trike around a supercharged new create engine.
Something stretched and curvy.

Current plans are a piece of tape, to the exact MSVA maximum sizes, layed out on a mates garage floor. Will be doing most of the chassis myself (Qualified Welder),
negotiating for a XJ12 at the mo... body is shot through with rust, so should make it a lot cheaper (old boy is a Jag enthusiast, and not too happy I'm gonna cut it to pieces...)

initially, will have it as a 3 seater, but if funds/insurance allows, will supercharge it. One-off self-designed front-end on it. Currently thinking how to avoid Tiller bars though, never liked them.

EIT

Lovin the charger... still want a 69 fastback mustang, but a charger would do me nicely as third choice (Stingray with LS1 is 2nd)

 

[clv101]

So you want to prevent people having, say, a Ferrari F599 which they polish every week and take out perhaps once or twice a month, yet you've no problem with people driving 30-40k a year in BMW 320d's?

No, and that isn't what my proposal would do at all. If my proposal was adopted for next year an onwards people could continue to own their F599s - but the road tax would be £1000. Manufactures would however no longer be able to sell new ones into the UK. I didn't propose doing anything with fuel - so the 30-40k 320d driver will be taxed more than the F599 driver who only does a couple of k.

Going forward the steadily raising minimum efficiency bar is a message to manufactures. Look what BMW have done with their cars this year, almost 20% mpg improvements over 2004 - it is technically possible to improve efficiency. Maybe a 20mpg Ferrari wouldn't be QUITE as exciting as a 13mpg one - well, tough luck, that's a price we have to pay.

We have maximum standards for particulates, for carbon monoxide emissions etc, what not also for fuel consumption?

 

[[TW]Fox]

No, and that isn't what my proposal would do at all. If my proposal was adopted for next year an onwards people could continue to own their F599s - but the road tax would be £1000.

Why should the road tax be £1000? What extra effect on the roads does the garage queen Ferrari have?

that's a price we have to pay.

Why?

 

[InSanCen]

A long, boring and frankly pointless post

Keep raising the road tax, and people WILL stop paying it... how many untaxed, uninsured etc drivers are out there already...

You're now wanting to price out a lot more people?

run for government, you're a shoe-in for Labour at the moment...

 

[clv101]

Why should the road tax be £1000? What extra effect on the roads does the garage queen Ferrari have?

Nothing - it's to make efficient cars artificially more attractive to buy new than inefficient cars.

Why?

See above - you national economy.

Keep raising the road tax, and people WILL stop paying it... how many untaxed, uninsured etc drivers are out there already...

You're now wanting to price out a lot more people?

The main thrust is product standards - not road tax. Yes I would make road tax on really inefficient car higher - but also zero for >60mpg. Plenty of cars like that available so there would be options. I certainly would not increase total road tax take. Just reallocate it.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Nothing - it's to make efficient cars artificially more attractive to buy new than inefficient cars.

Why should road tax be used for this? Why not just let inefficient cars be less attractive than efficient cars simply by virtue of the fact they are inefficient? We do not have a huge amount of people rushing and buying Ferraris. They are inefficient and expensive, so people do not buy them. We don't need legislation to prevent people buying them.

Nobody will be put off, nobody thinks 'I dont think I'll buy a Ferrari now, perhaps a BMW 320d would be a better choice'.

The main thrust is product standards - not road tax. Yes I would make road tax on really inefficient car higher - but also zero for >60mpg. Plenty of cars like that available so there would be options. I certainly would not increase total road tax take. Just reallocate it.

Then what about the massive reduction in fuel duty take as a result of more efficient cars? Why should people be forced through taxation to drive even more efficient cars?

 

[Jet]

This is true. If the whole UK car fleet turned into Range Rover Sports, the increase in global C02 emissions would not register.

Ditto, if we all stopped driving tommorrow, the increase in global C02 emissions would not register.

Nothing the UK does has any real impact on the world situation. Nothing. All we can ever hope to do is lead by example - effectively sacrificing our economy to make a point that people like China will NEVER listen to. We've had our industrial revolution, they are not having theirs.

I think it's unfair to consider CO2 emissions on a country by country basis since each and every person on this planet is responsible for their own actions. Such figures don't consider population sizes.

In 2003 the average UK citizen emitted over 2 times more CO2 than the average Chinese citizen. Now which countries are the problem?

I think too many people are using other countries as excuses for not taking action. We don't know how Chinese citizens and businesses will react if most of the west make an active effort. Europe as a whole can have just as much an effect on CO2 as China since they emit a similar amount of CO2. Surely China will say Europe aren't trying very hard so we won't either?

I can tell you one thing. If everyone has that attitude nothing will happen. Why don't we try and look at the population of the world as a whole? With individual people and individual businesses having a nominal effect on their own but together...

 

[Sonea Fifer]

Why should road tax be used for this? Why not just let inefficient cars be less attractive than efficient cars simply by virtue of the fact they are inefficient? We do not have a huge amount of people rushing and buying Ferraris. They are inefficient and expensive, so people do not buy them. We don't need legislation to prevent people buying them.

Nobody will be put off, nobody thinks 'I dont think I'll buy a Ferrari now, perhaps a BMW 320d would be a better choice'.



Then what about the massive reduction in fuel duty take as a result of more efficient cars? Why should people be forced through taxation to drive even more efficient cars?

Working along the same principal (and am in agreement here) we also pay road tax to fix/repair the roads we all drive on - and look at the state of them

 

[Dolph]

CO2 per capita is a pointless figure, given that even the most wacky scientific models work on CO2 not how many people produce it...

Does the enviroment care whether a ton of carbon is produced by one person or ten?

 

[Azagoth]

Just to **** the hippies and (environ)mentalists off, I'd purposely drive around with a sizeable lump of dry ice in my boot!

 

[Glaucus]

In 2003 the average UK citizen emitted over 2 times more CO2 than the average Chinese citizen. Now which countries are the problem?

China due to the sheer massiveness of the population.