Would you swap a 330 for a Mondeo ST220

I suspect only the OP driving an ST220 will know if it's OK for him..

I like some BMW's, and I like the ST220..

My brother has an E39 M5 and a Zafira VXR, he thought he wouldn't get on with the Zafira due to the 'quality' gap, but he soon realised that since the plastics are of reasonable quality, there are no rattles and the ride is compliant, the Zafira is more then liveable with, and now it's chipped he seems to be driving it more and more over the M5 (Which is an uber-car, just not 100% practical)..

The ST220, assuming it doesn't rattle has OK quality components, should be OK for the OP to swap to IMO, but I think it's more a personal choice then anything else..

As for BMW 'quality'... I know the perception, and the 'effect' is there, but lately, the more BM's I've looked at, the quality seems to be getting worse..

e.g. Mate looking for a Z4, we went and saw 6 examples, all low mileage, under 3 years, and 'immaculate'.. however both of us where a little taken back by the 'state' of them, and some things remind me of looking at E39 M5's with my brother..
- Alloys that corrode from within, a major major BMW problem on all BM's
- Interior decorative plastics that just wear/scratch as soon as they are looked at
- Controls that wear quickly and feel 'loose'
- Leather seats that don't wear well.. (A BMW foible methinks)..

Don't get me wrong, I can see where some of the 'quality' is, but I don't think the actual quality is as high as people think..
 
I can't speak for wear rates on newer BMW's but it certainly isnt the case with the older ones such as the E39. Even the most abused examples I viewed were, although trashed on the outside, virtually unmarked on the interior plastics etc. They stand up VERY well to abuse, partly why so many people clock them.

My leather is exceptional for a 150k mile if I don't mind saying so myself.

We'll see how the newer one stand the test of time and mileage but one of the huge driving factors behind me getting the E39 is the cars remarkable ability to remain virtually mint if looked after. Although having said that I looked in my local dealers 04 plate 30k mile Z4 the other day and was suprised at how worn the leather was.

I quite agree that it's perceived quality not actual quality that BMW (And Merc and Audi) are good at and I will readily accept that the mechanicals of the car do not stand up to the impression of quality you get from sitting in the cabin. A good BMW feels like it's indestructable, whereas we all know it is not.

By contrast, a good Japanese car fels like it's about to fall to bits, but of course mechanically, almost certainly never will.
 
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[TW]Fox;10328525 said:
By contrast, a good Japanese car fels like it's about to fall to bits, but of course mechanically, almost certainly never will.
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Interesting you bring that up fox, I got in my mates Civic Type R the other day (04 Plate) and I was shocked at how good the quality of the interior was, it seemed really well built, didn't look tackey or too plasticy. I wonder how long it'll last?!

Greg
 
You thought the quality of an 04 Civic was good? Blimey, I thought it was terrible. As did the owners of them on here, one of which got rid of his as a result.

Even the new shape one isn't great. Rattles and squeeks on a 1k miles car.
 
The reason for the OP is because I am sick to the teeth of dealing with BM dealers and their half arsed service dept.

Since day one of dealing with BM starting with my Mini Cooper S of April last year, all dealers around my neck of the woods they are useless.

The latest gag, after having my rear box changed to stop a creaking noise which I noticed from day 1 of picking up my replacement car new box did not fix it. I called the dealers back, and they said they would swap the exhaust over from another 330. Dropped the car off yet again late into work etc etc, get a call at 14.00 expecting all done. Slight problem the doner cars we have are automactics, yours is a manual and has a different exhaust. We are going to have to wait until we get another AUC in which is a manual and then swap it this could be days could be months! I suggested a whole new exhaust, they said nada as they are not confident it may fix the issue. Phone BMW and usual sit on the fence response, you will have to wait until the dealers find another car to swap the exhaust, they have done as much as they can.

In all fairness, the dealers could have told me to something off, and said take it back to Wollaston the gits who sold it to me, but I have previously explained how crap Wollaston are and that they had put the noise down to my driving style, they took it upon themselves to fix it.

But hey I am still cheesed off, the three Fords I have had have been reliable and mostly fault free any of which are fixed first time everytime.

It has taken the fun out of owning a BM incase I ever have to deal with the stress of taking it to incompetant dealers, who dont know **** unless it is logged on the ECU or looks physically broken.
 
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Dealers are franchised and are not owned by the manufacturer. So, moving brands to avoid a crap dealer is pointless, becuase there is just as much chance of the nearby Ford dealer being just as bad.
 
[TW]Fox;10330808 said:
Dealers are franchised and are not owned by the manufacturer. So, moving brands to avoid a crap dealer is pointless, becuase there is just as much chance of the nearby Ford dealer being just as bad.
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But i would take my ford to the same dealers i had used for 4 years :) Dagenham Motors Highbury anf Islington on my way to work too
 
[TW]Fox;10330840 said:
If you live in that area there are hundreds of other BMW dealers. Just use a different one.
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Exactly. We have the SLM Group in Hastings that operate Toyota, Nissan, Fiat and Vauxhall and they are fantastic. Hollingsworth Ford use to be worse than Kentucky Fried Chicken.
 
The Mondeo is that good, I changed from an e38 7 Series to a Mondeo TD. :rolleyes:

Hardly! :p

BMW's are imo something special, in both build quality & driver appeal, something any Ford simply isn't (even an RS!)

Needs must atm for me, but, when my situation changes, I'll be back at BMW's door. :)
 
[TW]Fox;10323006 said:
I've heard this opinion a lot and whilst I understand it from drivers of raw hot hatches, or sports cars, or whatever, compared to a Mondeo, I don't see how it would be exciting to somebody who finds other 4 door saloons boring. If a 3 Series doesn't do it for you what does a Mondeo do THAT differently?

You either like saloons or you dont :p
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I'd say there are a few reasons for this.

1. Many people like different styling. I happen to like the Saab interiors and always have. A lot of people say they are awful and that's their opinion, which is fine. However, the "feeling" you get when you look at something visually pleasing is obviously going to influence your enjoyment of the car.

2. A lot of "fun" comes from feeling immersed in the driving experience. This often means that rattles, squeakes, hums and so on will give the driver a sense of speed that is not there in better built vehicles.

3. The suspension is often different. Cornering in a wallowy, soft car at 60 will make you scared. Cornering in a car with hard suspension will make your teeth rattle. Both are likely to be described as "exciting". Cornering in a well sorted car will make you wonder if you're actually doing 60 at all.

I think some or all of these points, to one degree or another, will make people decide on what they consider fun and what is boring. Because of this often the "better" car (ie. the one on paper that is technically superior) will mask these experiences so well that the driver misses them and so does not feel connected with the drive.

Having fun in a car is often nothing to do with acceleration, cornering ability, speed, it's about how the car makes you feel. I have a lot of fun in my GT, but it's not particulalry fast, nor can it corner well, but the howl of the exhaust, the vibration, the closness to the ground, the feedback from the steering wheel and brakes all make me feel more connected to the car.

The Saab is much faster, corners faster, handles better and so on, but it is comfy, quiet, sedate even. It's not even comparable where the term fun is concerned
 
^^^

Even with the limited array of cars I've driven or been a passenger in I've got to agree with volospian's comments regarding the difference between technical ability and fun.

If I was ever in the market for a fun car it would certainly be something that takes longer to get from A to B than my vRS but also give me twice the grins per mile :D
 
His comments would be relevent if we were comparing something like a Lotus Elise with a 330. Or perhaps a hot hatch.

But a Ford Mondeo? A Ford Mondeo does not offer a more raw driving experience. It's a bigger car for a start. They also both have sports suspension, with 18 inch wheels, low profile tyres, soundproofing inside..
 
[TW]Fox;10341824 said:
His comments would be relevent if we were comparing something like a Lotus Elise with a 330. Or perhaps a hot hatch.

But a Ford Mondeo? A Ford Mondeo does not offer a more raw driving experience. It's a bigger car for a start. They also both have sports suspension, with 18 inch wheels, low profile tyres, soundproofing inside..
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But that's more my point than you think. the "driving experience" is subjective.

Are you saying that, if you went for a drive in both, then closed your eyes and was placed in one at random you wouldn't be able to tell if you were in a Mondeo or a 330. There will be differences between them. Just because they have sound proofing, it doesn't mean that one doesn't have a loose clip somewhere that makes an annoying little rattle every time you go over a bump.

Just because they both have sports suspension, it doesn't mean they have identicle ride quality, or handling.

earlier you were claiming that the 330 is a much better drive, build etc. than the mondy, now you're saying their identicle? :p
 
No I'm not, but I don't see how things like an annoying rattle from the dashboard and a bit of sub-par plastic can be endearing? It doesn't add to the 'rawness' of the car it just feels out of place in a car of its type.
 
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