Spec me a sleeper.

Lopéz · 3 Nov 2007 at 07:52

helpimcrap said:
I guess i'm thinking of the image problem it has. FWIW a sports car to me would be something sportier. i.e. a bigger engine and basically quicker...

it looks like a sportscar but without the go. however Freefaller has rectified what i thought was lacking on an mx-5 to turn it from a poser car to something sporty.

MX-5 is a sports car, end of story. It's almost the textbook definition of one.

As are things like the MGB, Triumph Spitfire, etc.

Mr_White · 3 Nov 2007 at 08:01

penski said:
Those I know with sleepers actually have them because they're "Under the radar" - Try doing 90 down a dual carriageway in your 530i and everyone will see you. Try it in a SAAB 9000 and nobody will notice.

To pre-empt the inevitable lashback, that is not an anti-BMW comment. It is merely a note that they are much more 'prominent'.

*n

Sorry, but not in my view.

I fully well expect to see a 530i or any type of repmobile brand doing those kind of speeds, I think nothing of it and don't take any notice.

If I see an old car doing the same, or a 1.2 <Insert cheesy trim name> generic mobile, I take notice since it's not as capable as said 530i that just went past, therefore, as a vehicle, it's more dangerous to be doing those speeds, and draws attention to it's self for those reasons, as do most old cars doing those kind of speeds.

Old cars (with exceptions, but you know what I mean) or low performance cars draw attention to themselves at speed since they're not as capable and safe at those speeds as other cars on the road doing those speeds are.

I'll probably get the "retro" mob on my back now, but it's a fact in most cases.

Shimmy · 3 Nov 2007 at 09:55

Agree with that^

But there are exceptions like already mentioned volvo's that can shift quite quickly standard, whilst looking fairly sedate and having lots of mod cons etc...

penski · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:00

Mr_White said:
Sorry, but not in my view.

I fully well expect to see a 530i or any type of repmobile brand doing those kind of speeds, I think nothing of it and don't take any notice.

If I see an old car doing the same, or a 1.2 <Insert cheesy trim name> generic mobile, I take notice since it's not as capable as said 530i that just went past, therefore, as a vehicle, it's more dangerous to be doing those speeds, and draws attention to it's self for those reasons, as do most old cars doing those kind of speeds.

Old cars (with exceptions, but you know what I mean) or low performance cars draw attention to themselves at speed since they're not as capable and safe at those speeds as other cars on the road doing those speeds are.

I'll probably get the "retro" mob on my back now, but it's a fact in most cases.

The example I gave was a SAAB 9000...Neither old nor small.

A 400bhp 9000 would be perfect for under-the-radar hooning.

*n

Mr_White · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:15

penski said:
The example I gave was a SAAB 9000...Neither old nor small.

A 400bhp 9000 would be perfect for under-the-radar hooning.

*n

The example you gave was a Saab 9000, yes.

But you said people have sleepers because they're under the radar, a lot of the examples in this thread and of sleepers in general aren't under the radar, because of the reasons given above.

People just think it's some chav thrashing their car to the absolute limits, and unless you uprate the rest of the car instead of just dropping a powerful engine in, they are.

penski · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:30

Mr_White said:
The example you gave was a Saab 9000, yes.

But you said people have sleepers because they're under the radar, a lot of the examples in this thread and of sleepers in general aren't under the radar, because of the reasons given above.

I said 'Those I know with sleepers...'

Reading the thread would avoid all this confusion

People just think it's some chav thrashing their car to the absolute limits, and unless you uprate the rest of the car instead of just dropping a powerful engine in, they are.

Who said anything about leaving the rest of the car alone?

Using the example which seems to have ****** in the most cornflakes in this thread, a Corsa with an XE. Big brakes and more-than-adequate suspension are cheap bolt-on affairs from other cars in the Vauxhall stable.

The cheapest and easiest way to 'make' a sleeper is to bolt in stuff from other cars from the same (or related) manufacturer.

Take a Vauxhall Carlton, drop in a 24v Senator engine with Getrag....Uses stock mounts and will go like stink.

Take an E30 316, drop in a 535i engine and box. A 'weekend job' and very fast.

*n

[TW]Fox · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:34

penski said:
The example I gave was a SAAB 9000...Neither old

Eh? How is, say, 1991 not old?

L0rdMike · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:35

[TW]Fox;10408874 said:
Eh? How is, say, 1991 not old?

Thats old enough to be Retro.

Mr_White · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:37

Penski, you're getting confused with what I'm saying, I think.

I'm saying that sleepers attract attention because people will just assume it's an old banger or a poverty spec generic mobile, which is the whole point of sleepers, but that's why they attract attention, since a 530i for example, is going to be far more capable and safer at those speeds than an old shed or 80s/90s family hatchback would be, and that's exactly why sleepers will attract attention, because people will just think it's someone being wreckless.

helpimcrap · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:42

Mr_White said:
Penski, you're getting confused with what I'm saying, I think.

I'm saying that sleepers attract attention because people will just assume it's an old banger or a poverty spec generic mobile, which is the whole point of sleepers, but that's why they attract attention, since a 530i for example, is going to be far more capable and safer at those speeds than an old shed or 80s/90s family hatchback would be, and that's exactly why sleepers will attract attention, because people will just think it's someone being wreckless.

Unless you realise the amount of time and effort that goes into such a thing...

Mr_White · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:43

I think you've misread my post.

penski · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:46

[TW]Fox;10408874 said:
Eh? How is, say, 1991 not old?

It has EFI doesn't it?

*n

helpimcrap · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:46

Mr_White said:
since a 530i for example, is going to be far more capable and safer at those speeds than an old shed or 80s/90s family hatchback would be, and that's exactly why sleepers will attract attention, because people will just think it's someone being wreckless.

i'm not saying you don't realise, i'm saying the people you're referring to probably dont realise. they look crap and go like stink, but i bet anyone who has taken the time to do an engine transplant isnt going to overlook things like suspension and brakes (talking about the sensible majority here - there are some who do overlook i imagine).

Mr_White · 3 Nov 2007 at 10:48

Yup, you misread my post, of course they don't realise, that's the whole reason they would attract attention.

Note how I said "old shed or 80s/90s family hatchback" not "old shed or 80s/90s family hatchback sleeper"

How is the public going to tell the difference? that's the whole point of them, and that's why they will attract attention for the reasons stated.

adam cool dude · 3 Nov 2007 at 11:02

<-- 96 Primera Turbo. 21 but 3 years no claims. Even still a standard one won't cost you more then a grand to insure. Really cheap to convert to turbo and the SR20DE engine is bomb proof. With that budget though you could be looking at a SR20VE engine if you did the conversion yourself. If i were to choose another car as a sleeper it would have to be a Carlton GSI. 150mph and 0-60 in the 7's. Problem is finding one with more metal left then rust.

penski · 3 Nov 2007 at 11:27

adam cool dude said:
If i were to choose another car as a sleeper it would have to be a Carlton GSI. 150mph and 0-60 in the 7's. Problem is finding one with more metal left then rust.

Not as hard as you would think; The Carlton/Monza/Senator/Omega brigade is larger than you'd think and they always know where there's a 'good' car...

*n

milgo · 3 Nov 2007 at 14:32

mr_white i get what you are saying. If i saw a ka doing like 120 i'd probably point and laugh and it would really grab my attention. If the same was done in a volvo, golf or whatever i wouldn't really think anything of it. Sleepers are only un noticed when poodling about normally.

I personally love sleepers. Often they arn't meant to be out and out race cars, but something a bit fun a quirky.

With referance to some of the earlier posts about corsa's. It's a very common conversion but as someone said, for the money its hard to beat. I totally believe they could achive 5 second 0-60's. People seem to compare them to higher powered cars that are turbo'd, but thats where the difference is. Off the line a fairly powerful NA engine in a light car will fly away because its got much more progressive torque and over all quite a bit less. A turbo'd car will likely just make a lot of screaching and spin up to start with. I am into VW's mainly and a mk1 golf with a 2L 16v in it with 170bhp wil do 60 in around 5.5 seconds.

Prophet · 3 Nov 2007 at 16:19

Milgo - Well put mate

Here's a mates converted Nova. He ran at Ten of the Best this year and did very well for his first outing.

0-60 in 4.8 officially timed and has a standing 1/4 of 12.49 sec. Could do quicker but he's still playing with settings.

Its now stickered up with some adverts/club stickers etc so not really a sleeper anymore.