Womans Sentence Doubled for being Gang Raped

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Lysander said:
That's fine - you can think it's wrong. I do too. But it's no-one's place to say it is wrong per se.
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Why is it noones place to say it is wrong? How about Dafur, Rawanda and Kosovo? Should no one have said what happened there is wrong either? Burma? Wrong for anyone to say that is wrong too? The invasion of Iraq? It is after all american culture to meddle internationally.


Lysander said:
You're looking at it through Western eyes, as am I. But I wouldn't say, "it is wrong, therefore they shouldn't do it". The culture is totally different over there.
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Then the culture is wrong if it allows this sort of thing. Sure it may be a western point of view but it is one that in this case I think is right. 200 lashes for associating with a man that isnt a relative? Their culture needs to change if they think that is acceptable.
 
I don't see what the problem is. She broke the law in her country and is getting punished for it. Break law = punishment, not rocket science.

I imagine the people in Saudi Arabia would find some of the sentences handed out in this country just as laughable as people here find theirs. They treat their criminals as criminals, we send ours to 5 star hotels and let them out after a few months for good behaviour. If our system was as tough as theirs crime would no doubt drop pretty rapidly.
 
RDM said:
If she hadn't been raped and was "just" given 90 lashes for sitting in someone elses car I would still think it was barbaric and savage regardless of the law in Saudi Arabia. Sorry for not being able to think outside of the box enough to think that warrants a flogging...
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you're ignoring the point everyones making, we've all said we believe exactly that. but likewise many of us think being jailed for using weed is wrong to, but it happens, and here. we can choose not to use it and not get in trouble, the people that do get in trouble, even if they think the law is stupid, know that the law is there, and they risk running into trouble.

if she agrees with the law or not(she may well have done up till the day it happened), she knew of the law, knew the risk and didn't have to be in a car with a man which she knew she could get in trouble with. it might be horrible to not be able to do something that seems so basic to us, but that doesn't matter.

getting lashes full stop is fairly barbaric, for any crime, less barbaric than the death penalty? probably. but in society , any society, you live within it, you take responsibility for either following the law, not following the law and knowing what the consequences are, or fighting hard to change the law. thats the same in ANY society, including ours, for ANY law.
 
RDM said:
Why is it noones place to say it is wrong? How about Dafur, Rawanda and Kosovo? Should no one have said what happened there is wrong either? Burma? Wrong for anyone to say that is wrong too? The invasion of Iraq? It is after all american culture to meddle internationally.

Then the culture is wrong if it allows this sort of thing. Sure it may be a western point of view but it is one that in this case I think is right. 200 lashes for associating with a man that isnt a relative? Their culture needs to change if they think that is acceptable.
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That's the point, who are you to impose your "superior by your own standards" culture on a people? Why, then, should they be stopped from doing the same to you? You have no right.

And the American actions were based on political, not cultural, bases. THey started as semi-preventative measures, not because they didn't like the way the people played football with a dead goat.
I don't like the way you have your stupid hair. It's stupid and it's wrong. Shave it off. Why? Because it's just stupid, CAN NOBODY ELSE SEE HOW STUPID IT IS?
Oversimplified, but it's the same situation.

And damnit, man, she knew she was breaking the law. Right or wrong, heinous or not she's not a damn victim if she knew exactly what she was doing and what she risked.
 
RDM said:
And it is those views, principles and ethics that I find wrong and barbaric.
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Fantastic for you. They, quite unfortunately, don't. But it's your right to say that you find them barbaric. You're technically stepping over the line when you say they *are* barbaric, though.
 
well she did break the law knowingly so i suppose there is that. To my mind with my particular views though it just goes to show that all cultures certainly aren't equal.
 
RDM said:
Why is it noones place to say it is wrong? How about Dafur, Rawanda and Kosovo? Should no one have said what happened there is wrong either? Burma? Wrong for anyone to say that is wrong too? The invasion of Iraq? It is after all american culture to meddle internationally.




Then the culture is wrong if it allows this sort of thing. Sure it may be a western point of view but it is one that in this case I think is right. 200 lashes for associating with a man that isnt a relative? Their culture needs to change if they think that is acceptable.
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yes but thats your view, from a culture that just decided two people who tortured over a long period, then murdered a man in cold blood and is giving them the chance to serve a very short sentence, come out and do it again. what about the kids who put a infant on train tracks and watched him die, they are out aren't they? i can't remember what happened to them tbh. what about peado's who are out and barely being controlled, of which a lot do reoffend. why is that ok, but them handing out incredibly harsh punishments not ok. at the moment we have groups of people who simply go around beating people up for no reason with bats, crowbars, and get away completely free? in ealing several years ago, a gang of roughly 30 people were finally charged with somewhere in the region of 400 separate offences. mostly muggings, some brutal violence. one of the group took a brick to a 75 year old lady who just got her benefits money, i think she died in the end. most of this group got off without jail, only 5 or so did time, and only 1 got more than 3 years, all of which were out well before their sentence was up.

if some lashings given out to this scum stopped a LOT of violent crime in this country i'd be all for it tbh. because right now our country is going to hell. so many people simply hate living here with the types of people who are so willing to just attack anyone at all.
 
DanH84 said:
don't agree with that at all.
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Why not? Would you not care, then, when, say, some zealous Muslims come over and make you pray five times a day and make your wife wear a burkha and all that comes with it? It's the same thing, what right do they have, what right do you have to do what is essentially the same?
 
RDM said:
Why? It is all a matter of opinion after all so by me saying that they are barbaric doesn't mean anything different to "I think they are barbaric".
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I think I should have explained that the first case would be your opinion, but the second would be "your opinion and everyone else's because that's the way it should/shouldn't be".
 
drunkenmaster said:
if some lashings given out to this scum stopped a LOT of violent crime in this country i'd be all for it tbh. because right now our country is going to hell. so many people simply hate living here with the types of people who are so willing to just attack anyone at all.
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The "scum" in this case being a woman who spent some time with a man that wasn't a relative. Regardless of how bad this country's legal system is, it sure as hell beats living in Saudi Arabia if you are a women.
 
dark_shadow said:
Saudi Arabia hardly implements Islam.

As for religious side of things, the way punishment is carried out Saudi, it's fabricated and wrong. There are some very warped-cultural ideas there that over-ride the Shariah.
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No, Saudi follows the Wahhabi "strain" of Islam. I say strain becasue it is like a virus infecting society as we speak.

Incidently Wahhabi Islam is what everyones favourite terrorist Osama bin Laden preaches.
 
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RDM said:
The "scum" in this case being a woman who spent some time with a man that wasn't a relative. Regardless of how bad this country's legal system is, it sure as hell beats living in Saudi Arabia if you are a women.
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But you're purposefully ignoring the fact that she's not innocent by any means, and she knew it.
 
El Gringo said:
I think I should have explained that the first case would be your opinion, but the second would be "your opinion and everyone else's because that's the way it should/shouldn't be".
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I have at no point stated that my opinon is everyone else's or what everyone else's should be. I talk for myself and not others, so saying "These people are barbaric" is not saying everyone else should feel the same. It is obvious that not everyone does, which, in my eyes, is a terrible shame.
 
El Gringo said:
Why not? Would you not care, then, when, say, some zealous Muslims come over and make you pray five times a day and make your wife wear a burkha and all that comes with it? It's the same thing, what right do they have, what right do you have to do what is essentially the same?
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We don't have the right to change anything over there, no one is saying that. What been said is that it's barbaric.
 
lol, one thing to point out, they use lashings in their country and the death penalty to try to instill fear in people not to do evil things.

thats different from us having a nuclear arsenal aimed at other countries threatening them with violence to not do something we don't want them to do? they need to do the lashings, to make it a real threat. i seem to remember us and the US of A using a nuke to induce that EXACT same fear they do with lashings. why again was it ok and not barbaric to nuke entire citys of people?
 
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