UEFA Midweek Football 27-29th November **Spoilers**

I can't help but think Wenger made a mistake, not in this one due to 3 games coming up in the prem very quickly (which looks to be Wengers primary concern thank god) but certainly against Slavia. We should have fielded a proper strength side then to get us 12 points which would have left us in a much better position.

Tonight i thought Senderos looked like an accident waiting to happen (why on earth Djourou is loaned out i have no idea) and Traore looked a little out of his depth which isn't a surprise considering who he was up against. Bendtner did look very good although a little isolated. 4-5-1 really doesn't work for us and it's a shame Wenger keeps persisting.
 
oh and in the interest of fairness i think Evra is class but i was glad to see him booked tonight. silly dive, i've heard people say he tripped but i think that's looking at it through united coloured spectacles.

I agree with that, but I thought the ref was poor in the second half. Very unwilling to let the play flow.
 
Good win for Man Utd (1st half was pretty poor and they were a lil unlucky with the 2nd goal , which wasnt offside) but Man Utd should have had a penalty against Vidic, so I guess it evened itself out
 
Whenever he played for Arsenal he looked far more solid and dependable than Senderos though. I presume we're getting him back in the new year. If anything Senderos needs games more than him anyway.
 
I agree with that, but I thought the ref was poor in the second half. Very unwilling to let the play flow.

oh i didn't rate the ref but we don't need our players doing that. doesn't help our image at all.

on another note Fergie has said on Ronaldo's freekick 'It was a magnificent strike but he's capable of that - he practices them all the time.'


yes Alex we know he practices them all the time - we have to watch him every ruddy match.
 
New Tony Adams? New Pascal Cygan more like, but then I've always remained unconvinced and wanting a new CB brought in.

I'm not one to panic after a single match but I hope we don't see a repeat of five years ago where once the unbeaten record went, one defeat turned into four and the team started to crumble.

Any word on the severity of Fabregas' twinge? We looked pretty average without him against Wigan and while far from a one-man team, I do think Arsenal look a different side without him.
 
People used to laugh at me in the office when I said this, but Cygan was actually a reasonable player when he was on form and did a good job in the FA cup towards the end of his time at highbury. The trouble is, he'd play 5 good games and then make a mistake in the next. You can't afford that at the top level.

It's that liability factor which I see in Ponderos, he is a booking waiting to happen and in the back of your mind no matter how well he is doing you are always expecting him to **** something up eventually.
 
People used to laugh at me in the office when I said this, but Cygan was actually a reasonable player when he was on form and did a good job in the FA cup towards the end of his time at highbury. The trouble is, he'd play 5 good games and then make a mistake in the next. You can't afford that at the top level.

Cygan's reading of the game was second to none. He just lacked speed and turned like an oil tanker. That type of player isn't suited in England where a lot of the time it's based around pace. In Spain he doesn't have that problem so much
 
New Tony Adams? New Pascal Cygan more like, but then I've always remained unconvinced and wanting a new CB brought in.

I'm not one to panic after a single match but I hope we don't see a repeat of five years ago where once the unbeaten record went, one defeat turned into four and the team started to crumble.

Any word on the severity of Fabregas' twinge? We looked pretty average without him against Wigan and while far from a one-man team, I do think Arsenal look a different side without him.

i don't think you'll be crumbling just yet.


on yet another note that keeper who played against united tonight looked very good for a youngster.
 
djourou is only on loan till xmas afaik, i think we might bring him back.

but its just a blooding the young game. i thought again though denilson looked a tiny bit out of depth, but he's had barely any games. just because cesc came in and took no time to find his feet, doesn't meet everyone can do that, very few can do that at all.

senderos didn't do that badly to be honest, like for their first BS penalty, he was strong, moved arm out the way and put in a great block on the cross.

the main issue was **** poor refereeing. its one of those games where one side is too physical and should start getting yellow cards early on, the ref ignored it, and he completely lost control of the game. their 2nd goal came from a completely blantant dive. alves and the guy who dived for that freekick for 2nd goal both did 4-5 dives each, couple in the area. in the second half their midfield simply hacked us down with almost every attack yet nothing. one guy did two fairly harsh tackles in a row, then for no reason about 20 yards in our own half shoved eduardo in the back and to the floor, he was going nowhere. it was pure petulance but showed exactly how crap the ref was. in games like that the ref should, quite rightly due to repeated fouling and especially diving, give out 2-3 yellow cards, that would simply stop 90% of the fouling that happened in the rest of the game.

their 2nd goal was from a complete BS freekick, we had a stonewall without question 100% certain penalty denied. their first, eventually not given penalty. the linesman with perfect view gave nothing, the ref, who didn't have a clear view at all, gave a penalty, the letter of refereeing law is, if you didn't see it, you can't assume and give a freekick/penalty, anything. he couldn't have seen it but gave it anyway, he was clearly against us. the 2nd penalty was fairly bogus too. up till even their 2nd goal we had some dodgey decisions and lack of help from the ref. after that the game was in chaos and we still played very well considering.

poor ref's ruin the game :(

as for cygan, can't help but love him, big weird russian mafia looking bugger :p i can't help but remember a game or two he played at left back and, shockingly, bombed up the wing, did overlaps with whoever was infront of him(can't remember who at all), crossed, ran into the box, he was actually, almost brilliant.

he was another player though who first game back after more than 4 games out was crap, then turned into a completely different player 2 weeks later with 4 games under his belt. he and senderos are both like that.

gilberto was one of the bigger issues tonight, but then, we also aren't really great with a 4-5-1 but we did ok. i honestly think if the ref had been fair and clamped down, as he bloody well should, on diving and fouls early then we would have won the game fairly easily. its easy to get momentum when you get away with fouling the other team constantly and get goals from freekicks you don't deserve.

more than anything, we need our backups, theo, diaby, gilberto to get a few more games, and play with each other a bit so they are better when bought in for games like these. frankly, denilson i think looks like he needs another season of experience in a few games here and there, before he's really ready to be able to replace fabregas effectively. when you play, train and learn 4-4-2, switching to 4-5-1 constantly isn't helping, and putting rosicky on, then playing him left wing, middle and right all of a sudden.
 
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Some dodgy decisions from the ref but even so it wasn't one of those games where I feel totally robbed. Seville were easily a match for that Arsenal side.
 
I had a good laugh at the Arsenal match actually. I think it's was Senderos' "handball" which clearly struck his chest - the look on his face when the ref actually gave it was priceless!

Then having to do a drop ball because he's cocked it up. No wonder Wenger was losing it on the touchline.
 
they are good, but they aren't anything like the side they were two years ago. i do feel robbed because, we were dominating early, we were showing to be the better side, and simply, they did cheat to win, dives should be punished, simple as that. the ref basically built up their momentum, let them basically stop every counter attack by hacking us down, and constantly give them help in pressuring us. even in the dying seconds an incredibly clear goal kick was given as a corner. even two perfectly matched sides, if one gets momentum going they can use that to wipe the floor with the other one.

any side can be disheartened when they are hacked down while trying to break, resulting in almost all their attacking football being against 10 men which is obviously harder, and ref's not giving clear penalties. any side can be heavily influenced by that stuff, the side tonight, traore, hoyte, denilson for sure, senderos and gilberto were nervous with lack of games and both showed that a lot tonight, bendtner being given a massive responsibility, if a seasoned side can get disheartened these guys can easily lose their drive as games like these drag on.
 
I had a good laugh at the Arsenal match actually. I think it's was Senderos' "handball" which clearly struck his chest - the look on his face when the ref actually gave it was priceless!

Then having to do a drop ball because he's cocked it up. No wonder Wenger was losing it on the touchline.

i like the fact it was a drop ball but he hadn't seemed to tell anyone, everyone had that bewildered "is this guy on crack" look, then he just dropped the ball near denilson who hesitated before clearing it as he didn't seem to know if it was in play, or the ref dropped it for a freekick or what.
 
Not read through the rest of the thread as I've been quite busy tonight, but I'll give my impressions on the Man Utd game and players.

First half, rubbish. Zero impotus from shambolic wideplay. In the engine room, nothing happened and defensively there was a big game either out-wide or in the middle, like we wanted to open for all their moves.
Second half, much stronger, better wideplay and in Tevez we have the perfect link player between our active midfield and attacks. Defensively sharper and passing was much improved.

On the players side of things, I really can't see what the hype about this Veloso is. He just looks like a very average midfielder on the occassions I've seen him (highlights from none MU games admittedly, but 2 full games against us).
Nani continues to be abysmally poor in almost every single thing he does. He's quick, but can't dribble or beat people. He can't head the ball. He can't pass. He just kicks out at people because he can't tackle. I have never been so disappointed by a new player since we bought Quinton Fortune. (and you can include Kleberson and Djemba in that.)
The second he came off the pitch we were a different team.

One thing that really is ****ing me off these days is Ferguson moving Ronaldo (the best winger... no... best player in the world) off the right wing onto the left to fit Nani in.. I mean, WTF?! As soon as he was off the play opened up, moves started happening and Anderson knocked the ball left and right, completely opening them up (it also allowed Evra to get forward).

Evra dived... no changes there. Annoys me when he does that as he's such a good player otherwise.

Second half I thought Anderson and Carrick were very impressive in both ball winning and passing. Excellent.
 
I thought Nani's preferred position was left wing anyway. Why is Ronaldo getting moved over?
 
hasn't ronaldo last year, last two years played left and right wing. sometimes his speed is more effective on the left, sometimes on the right. sometimes it just throws the opposition off.

i'm sure plenty of games last year giggs and him would switch over several times in loads of games. sometimes you get an incredibly fast left back and you just want ronaldo to trash a slower right back, why not. frankly, he's good enough to play left, right, upfront or through the middle.
 
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