Its easy to be tolerant when everyone does as you say, or is a slave.
'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested
- Thread starter Virdi
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Its easy to be tolerant when everyone does as you say, or is a slave.
The difference being though that their whiteness has nothing to do with their own stated actions. In each of the examples I gave religion was central to it. A muslim did it because of his faith. The identifier is also the reason.
Which falls down when their colour has nothing to do with their actions. In each of the stated examples I gave the religion was the reason the action occurred. Not to mention that not all animal rights extremists or anti-abortionists are actually white. However it does seem that 100% of muslim exremists are in fact, muslim.
What about when the actions of a select few seem to point towards a trend and when the select few are not all that select and not all the few. This is not the actions of a few animal rights nutters nicking a dead body but thousands of people calling for the death of a woman that called a teddy bear mohammed and doing it in the name of Islam. Right after Friday prayers, and it seems to have been at the urgings of their religious leaders.
Can you not even see slightly why this may just reflect badly upon islam?
And how would that help? The Islam of today isn't the Islam of the Golden Era (and the souther iberian peninsula would disagree about how golden it was). It isn't that mythical Islam we have to deal with but the Islam of today. The majority of Islamic states are not really what you would call progressive and tolerant are they? So what went wrong?
Because it has changed and it isn't what it used to be? (if it ever actually used to be that progressive and tolerant. Maybe it just looked that way against the alternatives at the time.)
Soldato
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Perhaps these followers of Islam that are causing all the trouble today should read up on this "Golden Age"
So far I can't see anything wrong with what this woman did, or the Danish cartoonists. Sure the invasion of Iraq was a major foul up but that was a political gaff and not an insult against Islam.
Islam needs to wake up, smell the coffee and spend some time with us Pagans. Chill out and get on with practicing what they believe and stop worrying about teddy bears called Mohammed, pictures in a newspaper and so on.
Surely your God really doesn't care if a woman names a Teddy Bear or whatever, surely your God will welcome you with open arms if you have been good and caring during you life?
Care to explain further, or is that pushing it a bit?
Associate
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How can the current situation be described in any way as tolerant?
Of course this doesn't represent the vast majority of muslims both in Britain or abroad, who in my (albeit limited) experience are just as tolerant, and in many ways more so than the vast majority of the british public.
There are certain factions in all religions, certainly in christianity, judaism and islam that seek to expoit the ignorant or naive with incendiary teachings - ignoring that will not solve the problems. There is a great problem in the world of fundementalists looking to enforce their views on others be it through terrorist activities, economic control or invading other countries.
Personally believe that all religions should be open to debate and criticism, if it is not then surely it can't be worth defending? And whilst I can but wish of a world evolved past a reliance on religious beliefs, I don't think its too much to ask for all moderates of all religions to work together to tackle the fundementalists that are causing the problems, rather than making it a struggle between religions. The battle is reason versus blind (ignorant) faith in religions often twisted by those in control to support their authority, not christianity versus islam - no matter how much certain factions on both sides want that to be.
I think the thing that has changed is levels of literacy, so everyone can read the Bible and decide for themselves what "the message" is, rather than be told by the nutjob in the Pulpit. Islam can't claim the same since I believe all Muslims have to learn arabic and read the Koran themselves?
Associate
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did you read that article - look under caues of decline, notably "Tolerance about different ideas reduced and faded". Therefore wouldn't it stand to reason that the actions of modern muslim extremists is against the principles shown in the religions renaissance
You completely missed the point... I wasn't arguing that it was once at the forefront of civilisation, but just highlighting the ridiculousness of comparing it to modern society... they are two worlds apart. Islam of today is not the same society, and likely never will be again. All we can hope for is a rapid decline, though with the amount of backwards, overbreeding countries adopting it as their main religion that may be a small hope.
And the bad examples I gave were done for freedom and democracy. Should we therfore say that freedom and democracy is evil? The Muslim may have done it because of what he thought was correct in Islam, as the West invaded Iraq for democracy and freedom, but it is clear from their actions that the reasons given hold no water.
Fair point about the anti-abortionists, however those that believe in enforcing "democracy" on others are pretty much white....I don't want the skin colour thing to take over the fact that a group that believe in democracy have comittied many evils in it's name - so what should we think of all those that believe in democracy?
Does Bush represent what democracy is all about?
Well then surely the select few who carry out actions that go against the majority are just that - a select few.
How about the example of the neo-cons who are hell-bent on controlling the ME - their actions clearly follow a trend, but once again does that mean they represent all American's?
I can see this is doing so only because of what I believe is an agenda by not only those that control what information we get but also by the states involved.
a) Agreed but with a slight pedantic difference. The way in which Islam is being practiced today is different to the Golden Era. I think once we figure out why things have gone so pear shaped for the Muslim World (the WiKi article I linked to does a decent job) then we may be in a far better position to get things the way they should be.
b) That's a bizzare statement to make. Their is nothing "mystical" about the Islam then - it is irruftable history.
c) See A
*** her TBH
she deserves to be shot as does anyone that leaves our shores to waste there time trying to educate this backward race of people
it makes me sick, as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. said of our allies " this country should be wiped off the face of the earth"
she deserves to be shot as does anyone that leaves our shores to waste there time trying to educate this backward race of people
it makes me sick, as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. said of our allies " this country should be wiped off the face of the earth"
Indeed, but sadly the literacy level and poverty level makes this next to impossible.
I don't believe it was an insult against Islam, although it is perceive by many Muslim's to be an attack on the Muslim World. I believe it far from a gaff, the crime of this centuary more like.
Of course - "All men are equal except in levels of piety"
It's not and I haven't said it is. I don't see how a country that is active in genocide can be thought of in any other than intolerant.
Totally agree with this.
This is part of the problem. Most Asian Muslim's learn to read Arabic - but not understand the actual Words.
This is something I've never understood. What is the point of reading something if you don't understand it? Maybe the Koran says that one must read it, but surely that includes grasping the actual content too?
i cant belive the intelegent users of this forum debate god/religion/islam etc
we evolved from fish FFS
religion is a prehistoric form of control
there is no god
if it makes people more secure and lessens there fear of death then fair enough but i still struggle to fathom how intellegent people can belive in gods etc.
we evolved from fish FFS
religion is a prehistoric form of control
there is no god
if it makes people more secure and lessens there fear of death then fair enough but i still struggle to fathom how intellegent people can belive in gods etc.
Yes, that is what I am trying to show. At one point it was extremley progressive, but then it went downhill. What happened and why is the key to the situations we have today.
Why can't we hope for Muslim's to get back to the way they should be?
And as an aside, I detest using words such a "overbreeding" as they are dehumanising to say the least.