The Saga of the Court Summons for PMKeates

PMKeates · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:06

In similar vein to a similar previous thread, I am going to use this thread to chart what happens to me during this particular episode of my driving career.

Yesterday afternoon I was stopped by a marked ST220 pursuit car that had apparently been attempting to "pursue" me for some minutes, and charged (not sure if that's the correct legal terminology) with careless driving. The officer notified me that he will be doing all in his power to have that raised to dangerous driving, and I should expect complete revocation of my license. I was also advised that I could face jail. This is what I was told.

First step is to wait for the court summons.

Does anyone know if a careless driving charge can be raised to dangerous driving in-court, or does what I am potentially being summoned for indicate exactly what I could eventually be facing punishment for?

I've got a feeling this thread will be a bit shorter than the last, but a whole lot worse for me!

Third Opinion · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:08

Sounds like you need a solicitor.

helpimcrap · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:08

Third Opinion said:
Sounds like you need a solicitor.

agreed - this is a serious charge. could be worse though, you could be done for speeding. that's being raised to the death penalty shortly i ehard.

olv · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:09

good luck, at least you've got a smile. how fast were you going?

insane200 · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:09

what have you done exactly to have what sounde like a copper having a bad day treat you like that ?

Shimmyhill · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:09

I very much doubt they will be able to raise it to dangerous driving, they need lots of proof and witness information. They ususally start with dangerous driving and fall down to careless.

I guess i missed the thread where it happened, do they have it on camera ?

Malt_Vinegar · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:09

As far as i know, the copper has to submit a case to the court with an advised charge. He then has to submit evidence to back this charge up. If he can persuade the CPS (i think) that what you did warrants a dangerous driving charge then thats what you will be charged with. Otherwise they will drop it the next worst charge and consider the evidence again.

PMKeates · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:10

helpimcrap said:
agreed - this is a serious charge. could be worse though, you could be done for speeding. that's being raised to the death penalty shortly i ehard.

Well, after the police had calmed down, they said they were about to smash my window in before I handed them my keys!

PMKeates · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:12

olv said:
good luck, at least you've got a smile. how fast were you going?

Err, rather not say exactly on a public forum until any evidence has been submitted

M0T · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:13

PMKeates said:
Err, rather not say exactly on a public forum until any evidence has been submitted

Sounds like you were doing a fair speed then, how is it you didn't learn from last time?

atpbx · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:15

Careless and dangerous are two completely different things.
What were you doing or what did you do?
Speeding other than "misjudging speed" isnt covered by Careless driving.

Yes they cover the same things but to different degrees the charge is brought about by the consequence of the action.

PMKeates · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:16

M0T said:
Sounds like you were doing a fair speed then, how is it you didn't learn from last time?

Learn from what? Nothing was taught; I just received a speeding ticket.

PMKeates · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:18

atpbx said:
Careless and dangerous are two completely different things.
What were you doing or what did you do?
Speeding other than "misjudging speed" isnt covered by Careless driving.

I've no idea what they are using as evidence. I was simply told it is careless driving, and he would be recommending dangerous driving.

I do not recall their prescence until I was travelling at around 30MPH with them coming screaming up behind me.

atpbx · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:18

PMKeates said:
Learn from what? Nothing was taught; I just received a speeding ticket.

Just tell us how fast THEY say you were going, or indeed what you were doing.

There is nothing to link you to an alleged offense.

Third Opinion · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:20

PMKeates said:
Learn from what? Nothing was taught; I just received a speeding ticket.

Not just the tickets according to one of your other posts.

PMKeates said:
1 SP30, 7 encounters with foreign objects

5 were in my first 3 months, and the 6th was a knocked wing mirror 2 years ago. The 7th was errr,

Sorry but that many incidents in just over 3 years of driving doesn't sound like you are learning from your mistakes.

Matt82 · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:21

i feel very sorry for you mate. make sure you speak to a solicitor and do your best to get hold of whatever evidence they have

a friend of mine lost his licence for year in southend mags a couple weeks ago. he was see speeding on the a127 by a copper who was parked in the church. they did him for dangerous driving even though when they did eventually see him again and pass him he was doing 40 or so. they had no evidence of his actual speed, no real witness account of what he was doing other than they saw a white car go past fast.

was this on the a13?

M0T · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:22

PMKeates said:
Learn from what? Nothing was taught; I just received a speeding ticket.

Most people would learned to slow down a bit because its not worth you license for a few minutes off your journey time.

Matt82 · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:22

ps.. dangerous driving, according to the duty solicitor who saw my friend on the day of the hearing, is an offence thats getting 6 months inside at the minute due to the crack down essex police are having.

he got banned for a year and 160 hours community service despite them having no evidence

Gaygle · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:25

Sorry to hear about it, but if i'm totally honest, if you were going fast enough to warrant dangerous driving, you must have been doing some speed. I guess all you can do now is get a solicitor and pray they don't sling you in jail?

Jonny ///M · 2 Dec 2007 at 19:25

M0T said:
Most people would learned to slow down a bit because its not worth you license for a few minutes off your journey time.

Some people don't though.

Guy i know has written off one car and got 3 points. Still didn't stop him taking it to 115mph on a nsl single carriageway/B road! That was ******* scary.