What do you Believe

krooton · 5 Dec 2007 at 17:48

Squark said:
True, God is good, he is the source of goodness. No evil stems from God though, it cant, or God is a liar, and if God is a liar then my faith is worthless.

You choose to accept the rule of God or not, you choose to accept him, or not.

If we don't choose the rule of God then we choose the rule of something else, which is Satan.

But if God created everything, then he created evil too.

Without evil there is no good.

Also, he created Lucifer, were angels also given the free choice ability?

Squark · 5 Dec 2007 at 17:49

scorza said:
Nice one mate - said it better than I ever could You seem very confident in your theology, might I enquire as to whether you have had any special training (priest, vicar etc.) or are you a lay person?

No training as such, except going to church, reading the Bible and prayer.

neodude · 5 Dec 2007 at 17:49

Squark said:
True, God is good, he is the source of goodness. No evil stems from God though, it cant, or God is a liar, and if God is a liar then my faith is worthless.

You have failed to answer my question which has a direct link to your statement above. Is your god and the god of the old testament one and the same? Is your god the same god who is responsible for over 2 million deaths in the bible inlcuding women and children? Is it the same god that has commanded the raping of young girls and the slaying of innocent babies?

Doesn't sound like a very "good" god to me.

Slinwagh · 5 Dec 2007 at 17:49

Squark said:
True, God is good, he is the source of goodness. No evil stems from God though, it cant, or God is a liar, and if God is a liar then my faith is worthless.

You choose to accept the rule of God or not, you choose to accept him, or not.

If we don't choose the rule of God then we choose the rule of something else, which is Satan.

I don't believe in God one iota so by your statement I follow satan? And you wonder why people laugh at religion?

Cob · 5 Dec 2007 at 17:50

Right now I believe my coffee may be a little too sweet.

Other than that, nothing else matters.

Slinwagh · 5 Dec 2007 at 17:56

"God" let his "son" get nailed to a cross, tortured and literally hung out to dry.

The moral of the story, why take the wrap for something if some other mug will instead!

The selfless "God" where can I sign up?

Squark · 5 Dec 2007 at 17:57

krooton said:
Wait, so humans aren't able to abide by the laws God gave, and as such Jesus exists as a get out of jail free card?

Well, we could, until Adam and Eve chose to disobey God and ate the fruit that they were forbidden to do, because they accepted the word of Satan as the truth over the word of God.
That action has spoilt the whole of creation, us included, meaning that we are now ruled by the sinful nature, we die. We choose to go against God and do our own thing either through 'ignorance' because we dont know about God or we consciously choose to disregard him.

psyr33n · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:00

Perplexed said:
By Satan I presume you mean the fallen angel Lucifer. But wait didn't God create all the angels, including Lucifer? So where did this sin and imperfection come from if not God himself?
The Alpha course I went on never did answer that question.

The idea of Satan as a fallen angel is an entirely human idea stemming from the early Church.

neodude · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:00

psyr33n said:
The idea of Satan as a fallen angel is an entirely human idea stemming from the early Church.

As is everything else in the bible

Squark · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:05

Slinwagh said:
"God" let his "son" get nailed to a cross, tortured and literally hung out to dry.

The moral of the story, why take the wrap for something if some other mug will instead!

The selfless "God" where can I sign up?

You seem to be missing the point slightly. Our sin sets up apart from God, but God has such immense love for us, he created us and he loves us with a pure love.
Its because of this love that God want to redeem us to himself, he wants the relationship between us and himself to be restored. God's love drove Jesus to go to the cross, to willing take upon himself my failings, and take my punishment for them so that if I accept this gift of grace I can find forgiveness and be reconciled to God. yay!

God 'let' Jesus go to the cross, as you put it, so that we have a way to back to himself.

Kristoph · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:07

I hate all this hippy talk... It's everything I'm against. I'm gnna stop reading this, just gets me stressed.

bsoltan · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:10

I believe for every drop of rain that falls a flower grows.

Squark · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:10

Slinwagh said:
I don't believe in God one iota so by your statement I follow satan? And you wonder why people laugh at religion?

Well yes unfortunately, there is no middle ground. You may not mean to, you may be then nicest person (I hope you are) but there it is.

I'm not trying to say that I'm better than anyone else
I make as many mistakes as then next person, probably more, but I've accepted the forgiveness that has been extended to me from God, he bought it through Jesus.

coolpunkskater · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:11

I belive that a man should have a beer and a curry everynow and again and a wife to run around and look after him while he does things about the house and goes out and works or brings money into the house

is it me (age 25 3 kids married) or am i old before my time ?

Tefal · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:13

I believe, i don't know and probably never will.

Although i lean towards evolution/big bang etc, as no religious person has ever been able to adequately explain, why we NEEDED to be created and could not have arrived through evolution etc, yet god/the creator, can just exist/always has done, with no explination.

Slinwagh · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:14

Squark said:
Well yes unfortunately, there is no middle ground. You may not mean to, you may be then nicest person (I hope you are) but there it is.

So your either good or evil and thats it.

but I've accepted the forgiveness that has been extended to me from God, he bought it through Jesus.

That is akin to the paedophile priest who absolves himself in confession after violating a child.

Tefal · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:15

Squark said:
True, God is good, he is the source of goodness. No evil stems from God though, it cant, or God is a liar, and if God is a liar then my faith is worthless.

You choose to accept the rule of God or not, you choose to accept him, or not.

If we don't choose the rule of God then we choose the rule of something else, which is Satan.

No evil comes from god?

So why did he make Satan?

lsg1r · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:21

Simple for me - I believe the things I want to believe (pretty weird mix of different beliefs) and will not force others to believe the same as me. I have no problem with others believing what they do, whatever makes them feel good etc is a personal thing however I don't want people to try and force me into their belief system etc.

I do question some of the logic behind certain religions - Jehovah witness and their no blood rule for example but I'm not going to try and change their minds.

Slinwagh · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:24

lsg1r said:
I do question some of the logic behind certain religions - Jehovah witness and their no blood rule for example but I'm not going to try and change their minds.

Pointless trying that, transplants and blood tranfusions are not allowed.

Squark · 5 Dec 2007 at 18:24

Slinwagh said:
So you're either good or evil and thats it.

Yea, but I don't class myself as good. As only God is truly good.

Slinwagh said:
That is akin to the paedophile priest who absolves himself in confession after violating a child.

I don't think so. If the 'priest' does such a thing but with no intention of changing, without seeking to stop committing such a disgusting act then I dont believe in their forgiveness.
Forgiveness requires a determination to change and not to carry on in the same sins.

Tefal said:
No evil comes from god?
So why did he make Satan?

God didn't make him evil, it was his decision to turn against God and to turn others against God that did that