Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that the BM just has better mechanical/natural ability than a 10 year old Merc
Thank you BMW DSC!
- Thread starter Over Clocker
- Start date
- Status
Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that the BM just has better mechanical/natural ability than a 10 year old Merc
When you wish to wheelspin for 30 metres away from the traffic lights in a spectacular show of screeching noises and tyre smoke, while everyone else watches in awe!
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Mar 2004
- Posts
- 8,259
Very nice
. Not sure if it is the same I assume some are made by the same manufacture i.e. Bosch so maybePossibly in heavy snow or ice where it will cut the power when pulling away due to the inevitable wheelspin, according to housemaster this can be an issue. Probably a decent idea to turn it back on once moving though.
It's pretty great in icy conditions, actually. Makes it far easier to maintain steering control under braking as it will stop intermittent lockups on variable road surfaces!
Pretty much the only scenarios where ABS can be detrimental are:
1. In perfect, dry, constant conditions, where a straight-line emergency stop with a good cadence braker will probably stop quicker.
2. In heavy snow, where being able to get a mound of snow in front of the tyres may help slow the car more than the braking effect from the tyres on the "road" surface.
Last edited:
We're not necessarily talking absolutes here. Arguably it's easier to drive a 4WD car quicker than a 2WD car. It's also easier to drive a DSC equipped car quicker than it is to drive one without.
Associate
- Joined
- 30 Dec 2002
- Posts
- 738
When you wish to wheelspin for 30 metres away from the traffic lights in a spectacular show of screeching noises and tyre smoke, while everyone else watches in awe!
I've seen the invoice for a pair of P-Zeros
. Trust me, this won't be a problem...Easier, but it can't technically go any faster than it could without and a good driver.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
This is true but just becuase you can doesnt mean you should..
Don't think so, might be optional. Mind you, ABS is of little to no help on ice anyway.
Mine doesn't, and in a way I'm glad it doesn't. Driving a car with no driver aids at all kind of naturally coaches you on good driving technique. No ABS teaches you to modulate the brake pedal nicely. I overstepped the line once and caused a big lockup, won't happen again. Likewise, skinny tyres and no traction control teaches you good accelerator technique, bad understeer teaches you the merits of left foot braking and Scandinavian flick (don't try this on the street kids
I agree with this - before buying the 530 I drove the C250D for 2 years which as a first car, couldn't prepare you any better - was fully loaded with electrics but in terms of driver aids, only had ABS and power steering. No traction control, no low profile or big-name tyres, and it was seriously lacking in power. I knew when I was going at a high speed because of the effort the engine was making or the amount of body roll
I have said to my parents a few times that I'm glad to have been in it for those 2 years as it has definitely impacted my driving style for the better.Myself, my mum and dad have all discussed & admitted that being in a higher-spec car will always encourage faster driving. Dad was glad to get rid of the E39 530D because he said he always drove like he did 20 years ago. Being in the lowly C270 CDi has brought him right back down to earth again
Mum flies around in her Passat 1.9 (she's the worst of the lot) but when planted into the old C250 is happy to piddle around and take it easy.At your level of experience perhaps.
and
DSC and 4WD are traction devices, not something that can aid going quickly unless you are in a situation where traction is an issue, in which case I would agree they have advantages.
Last edited:
Quite probably, yes. You've proven my point wonderfully.
DSC allows you to do things that you cannot without it.
Agreed. However, DSC can create levels of traction that you may not have been able to achieve without it.
Consider a right hand bend, followed be a left that quickly straightens out, that has a camber change in the middle of the swap from right to left. If you attempt this bend applying maximum throttle at all times, during the camber change a RWD may have the tendancy to try and oversteer, which would be annoying as the bend quickly straightens out. With DSC, it may be the slightest drag on the front right wheel for a fraction of a second, that has virtually no impedence on progress, that counters the generation of the moment for oversteer and allows excellent pace through the bend. This is automated, the light would illuminate, but the counter is minimal yet enhances the handling of the car and could theoretically make it quicker than the same car without DSC.
Last edited:
No, ABS is designed so that you can steer while a lead footed driver with poor brake pedal control brakes hard and would have locked up the wheels. You can't steer on ice no matter what system you have (apart from studded tyres) so it might as well be locked up. Same applies in a straight line, you can't slow down on ice if it's locked up or not, so ABS is of no benefit.
ABS is helpful for a lot of drivers who have poor braking technique. They want to slow down quickly so they stamp on the pedal, forgetting that it requires a delicate touch just like the clutch pedal does. Driving a car without ABS for a while will teach you a thing or two about the delicacy required when using the brake pedal.
Given the scenario where you are driving on a road with patchy ice, and your right tyres go over any icy patch while the left are still on good tarmac while braking, the right side will lock up and have no braking effect while the left side will. This will cause the car to steer to the left on its own, ABS wont be able to help in this situation because even with the brakes pulsating there will still be more braking effect on the left side. However, one of the fancy electronic braking distribution systems that falls under the DSC umbrella WILL be able to help you out by detecting the difference in wheel speed and undesired directional change, and perhaps by reducing the braking force on the left side would be able to stop the undesired direction change.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Mar 2004
- Posts
- 8,259
[TW]Fox;10698685 said:Does it give you the confidence to drive so fast you then get arrested?
Did not save you from a hedge
At any level of experience.
Next year Formula 1 is ditching traction control altogether - next to none of the current drivers have ever driven an F1 car without traction control. In test drives recently the fastest driver was (surprise) Michael Schumacher when Ferrari brought him back in. The rest of them had lots of trouble.
Basically, those F1 cars are using the traction control going round every corner, and now they won't have it. Why are guys of such experience having such bother then?
PMKeates is right - it's harder to drive a car quicker without DSC.
And you mine...
You admit you are happy to rely on electronics in situations where without them you would be unable to handle the car, on the public highway, and where one day those systems may just demonstrate they are not totally flawless and your lack of skill will come to the fore with negative effect, hopefully for the rest of us just on yourself.
DSC is a fantastic safety device, it is not a catch all for poorly skilled, over ambitious driving, the point I suggest a few people are making.
- Status