How so? I'm claiming that foodchains depict the feeding relationships between organisms(this is a fact)- beginning with greenplant organisms and ending with carnivores(also a fact). Human beings are not inherently carniverous(another fact), the fact that vegetarians exist backs this up- as does our sentiency and free will. Therefor we are not part of a foodchain, and are also not predators.
Is Foie Gras naughty?
- Thread starter Youstolemyname
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How so? I'm claiming that foodchains depict the feeding relationships between organisms(this is a fact)- beginning with greenplant organisms and ending with carnivores(also a fact). Human beings are not inherently carniverous(another fact), the fact that vegetarians exist backs this up- as does our sentiency and free will. Therefor we are not part of a foodchain, and are also not predators.
well weather you like it or not. You are designed to be a predator. Yet anotother thing which ticks me of. Is people trying to make out we are something we are not.
We are predators plain and simple. That doesn't mean we have to act like a predator. but that is what we are.
and how many nations where vegetarian before modern science and understanding of nutrients?
We're designed to be a predator? Ahem, our social evolution massively impacts on our physical evolution, as it removes the need for a survival of the fittest, therefore we do not need to adapt to our environment because we do not rely on it in the same way the animals do for survival. If anything our body design would suggest we're anything but predatorial. The only real remaining remnance of this is in our teeth. We don't have claws, talons or really any other suitable means of catching prey. Maybe punch the thing to death? If you claim we're at the top of the food chain i'd like to see you go hand to hand with a lion.
This point is completely irrelevant, the existence of our free will and sentiency is what destroys any pre-disposition and inherent reliance on carniverism.
This is just getting silly. If you going to be as stubborn to say that humans do not belong to any food chain (which is totally baffling me), then I don't think myself or anyone else is going to convince you otherwise.
you what? maybe in a million years we won't be predators. But we have eyes at the front of our head, we have the teeth and we have a brain and opposable thumbs to make weapons. We certainly where and still are predators.
Stop being silly and just admit we are predators.
If you can tell me which parts of what you quoted you specifically disagree with then maybe we can go from there, because thus far- I don't see any real contradiction to what i'm saying coming from you.
Self-discipline, therefore, is the measuring stick of the human. The more disciplined behavior (behavior determined by intellect) displayed by the individual, the more human he becomes. The less disciplined behavior (behavior in response to instinct) displayed by an individual, the more he becomes like the lower order animals that are lacking in intellect and are driven by their instincts.
We have evolved to the stage where we can easily override our basic instincts.
We know certain methods cause pain and discomfort to animals and because we are human most of us try to limit this as far as possible.
I wouldn't eat foie gras for this reason. Just as I support the most ethical methods of killing. I won't stop eating meat though.
If we were to simply submit to all our basic instincts then you would have to quash many murder convictions that will have been based on basic instincts of family protection and similar.
Simply put, the fact that we don't submit to our basic instincts without thought is what makes us human.
We have evolved to the stage where we can easily override our basic instincts.
We know certain methods cause pain and discomfort to animals and because we are human most of us try to limit this as far as possible.
I wouldn't eat foie gras for this reason. Just as I support the most ethical methods of killing. I won't stop eating meat though.
If we were to simply submit to all our basic instincts then you would have to quash many murder convictions that will have been based on basic instincts of family protection and similar.
Simply put, the fact that we don't submit to our basic instincts without thought is what makes us human.
Stop being silly? You're the one perpetuating a completely moot point. The fact we have eyes in the front of our head is not mutually exclusive to us being predatorial- more likely the remnance from what we evolved from before our societal evolution began. No **** we have brains, so does every living organism on this planet. Opposable thumbs- once again, not mutually exclusive to us being predators.
Penguins have wings but don't fly. How do you explain that?
Find me one that says we are. Don't try and fall back on that because you can't get it together yourself to actually disagree with me on any logical level
We don't evolve the same way animals do because we are not solely reliant on our interaction with the environment for our survival.
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Right.
I totally understand that we do not need to eat meat to survive, but to come with the arguement that we are not a part of any foodchain as a reason to not eat meat.... is....
I think you have overcomplicated what you were trying to say and have managed to cause myself and Acidhell2 to become bewildered by such a 'factual' claim, which is purely opinion based.
I have also found several journals (yes I really have nothing better to do than browse the trusty 'web of knowledge'...) which refer to farm animals as 'within the meat food chain', but I totally ackowledge that is opinion based and useless to this discussion.
We do not need to eat meat, that I will agree with.
Edit: Oh god, evolution is coming out *dies*
If we are not part of a 'food chain', what are we?
I totally understand that we do not need to eat meat to survive, but to come with the arguement that we are not a part of any foodchain as a reason to not eat meat.... is....
I think you have overcomplicated what you were trying to say and have managed to cause myself and Acidhell2 to become bewildered by such a 'factual' claim, which is purely opinion based.
I have also found several journals (yes I really have nothing better to do than browse the trusty 'web of knowledge'...) which refer to farm animals as 'within the meat food chain', but I totally ackowledge that is opinion based and useless to this discussion.
We do not need to eat meat, that I will agree with.
Edit: Oh god, evolution is coming out *dies*
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That logic would suggest that bears are also not predators. Being omnivorous they also do not need to hunt for meat for survival, however they still do.
Exactly, the wings remain on penguins because there was a time when they or their ancestors needed them and over time this changed.
What's to say the forward facing eyes, etc, are present because an earlier ancestor required them but we don't?
Incidentally, all primates share the same features yet don't eat meat? And we lack claws, sharp teeth, night vision, acute sense of smell, speed, etc, that a lot of predators have.
I don't know what I think since I've never looked into it but your arguments are less than convincing.
Many scientists think we were prey rather than predators for many reasons.
Right.
If we are not part of a 'food chain', what are we?
I totally understand that we do not need to eat meat to survive, but to come with the arguement that we are not a part of any foodchain as a reason to not eat meat.... is....
I think you have overcomplicated what you were trying to say and have managed to cause myself and Acidhell2 to become bewildered by such a 'factual' claim, which is purely opinion based.
I have also found several journals (yes I really have nothing better to do than browse the trusty 'web of knowledge'...) which refer to farm animals as 'within the meat food chain', but I totally ackowledge that is opinion based and useless to this discussion.
We do not need to eat meat, that I will agree with.
Edit: Oh god, evolution is coming out *dies*
I'm not saying we shouldn't eat meat, i'm saying we don't need to eat meat and that we are not top of the foodchain because we have free will which means we are not inherently pre-disposed to eating one thing for our survival.
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