For or against corporal punishment in schools ?

mrbios · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:27

we have a 6thformer in the office with us at the moment, we're chatting about this topic, he's just told us that the ones who act like little ****s are actually treated better than those who learn willingly!

there sent away on trips, they get taken away for things like learning how to use DJ kit etc

EXCELLENT :/

Muffin` · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:28

daz said:
Against.

It is up to the parents to discipline the children, the school's job is to educate.

It's been like that for what 20 years? Things have gotten worse with kids in and out of school. Things were better before, funny that.

InvaderGIR · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:29

Yeah, the idea is that giving them treats/incentives to make them better will make them better, no it won't they just get to arse about even more as they are basically being given a treat for being a little oik.

InvG

Muffin` · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:29

mrbios said:
we have a 6thformer in the office with us at the moment, we're chatting about this topic, he's just told us that the ones who act like little ****s are actually treated better than those who learn willingly!

there sent away on trips, they get taken away for things like learning how to use DJ kit etc

EXCELLENT :/

It's to stop them getting into trouble "To steer them away from crime". Well actually it's better to help the quite ones, help those who want to be helped. They will still go and nick a car when Barry the cool guy wants to, no ammount of Bowling and PaintBalling is going tostop that.

daz · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:30

InvaderGIR said:
But the parents don't, and the schools are filling up with little yobs that can get away with abusing the staff, only when it is truly serious, like a knifing/gunning will the police be involved to dish out punishment...which in all honesty is sod all anyway.

InvG

You're right, the problem is that the parents aren't doing their job. Bad parenting is the issue at hand, but that won't be solved by corporal punishment in schools. It will be solved by better education overall, and education of parents in how to raise their kids.

It is not the government's role to act as a parent to everyone.

InvaderGIR · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:30

[DW]Muffin;10842565 said:
It's to stop them getting into trouble "To steer them away from crime". Well actually it's better to help the quite ones, help those who want to be helped.

Yup, as the ones being 'steered from crime' are going to do the crime anyway, they just get treats for doing so...smart...

InvG

miracleboy · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:30

One of the problems these days is that they try to keep as many of the kids in mainstream schooling as possible. This means you end up with a class with kids with wildly different intelligence and social skills which IMO is a recipe for disaster. I know I'm probably arguing for tiered education here in the same way as it was in my days (1970/1980's) with Grammars, Comprehensives and Special Needs schools.

But the fact is (from my wifes experience) you have a class of 30 where maybe 10 need real close intensive schooling, cross between social worker and special needs teacher and they aren't getting it because the teacher has to educate the other 20. The 10 either get isolated and cause trouble, or the 20 get dragged back.

camels5 · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:31

Against. hitting a child is wrong, parents and teachers should work together to discipline and educate. The problem is too many parents are scared to discipline.

Muffin` · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:32

daz said:
You're right, the problem is that the parents aren't doing their job. Bad parenting is the issue at hand, but that won't be solved by corporal punishment in schools. It will be solved by better education overall, and education of parents to be in how to raise their kids.

It is not the government's role to act as a parent to everyone.

So we should dissallow cliping kids round the ear till the parents are taught? How is gods name are we going to do that?

miracleboy · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:32

camels5 said:
The problem is too many parents are scared to discipline.

Or never had it themselves. Often poor discipline is heriditary.

Muffin` · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:34

miracleboy said:
One of the problems these days is that they try to keep as many of the kids in mainstream schooling as possible. This means you end up with a class with kids with wildly different intelligence and social skills which IMO is a recipe for disaster. I know I'm probably arguing for tiered education here in the same way as it was in my days (1970/1980's) with Grammars, Comprehensives and Special Needs schools.

But the fact is (from my wifes experience) you have a class of 30 where maybe 10 need real close intensive schooling, cross between social worker and special needs teacher and they aren't getting it because the teacher has to educate the other 20. The 10 either get isolated and cause trouble, or the 20 get dragged back.

Exactly, but it shouldn't be done in 80's conservative ways - they should all have availability to something, or none get it. Equal rights in this system would be key. a teacher to 20 students would be brilliant but unachievable in this day and age.

spp · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:34

I'm for it. I was for it back when I was in school.

nade · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:34

I'm all for it!

The other half works as a teacher and the kids just get away with whatever they want. The teachers are simply not allowed to touch them or do anything. It's a complete and utter joke.

And on the same subject, I think teachers should be allowed to kick parents out the school if they are having a go at the teachers and/or swearing. I mean in any other job anywhere else, any kind or form of "aggressive" behavior or bad language and it ain't tolerated. So don't see why on earth the same cannot apply within a school.

Muffin` · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:35

camels5 said:
Against. hitting a child is wrong, parents and teachers should work together to discipline and educate. The problem is too many parents are scared to discipline.

No one hits kids quietly playing in the corner

daz · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:35

Crime and unruliness amongst youth would disappear then if everyone beat their kids and schools were allowed to use the cane etc?

These are not new problems we're facing; problems that were present during times when everybody hit their kids and every school used the cane.

InvaderGIR · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:35

Yeah, there are in fact some schools for badly behaved children. I know of one in Somerset/Bristol area as my girlfriend's mother and step father both work there. They have about 8 kids to a class, all are the ones that have been kicked out of mainstream schools for being unruly etc.
They actually find that 8 pupils is almost too many, a few years ago they only had like 4 or 5 and that was much more manigable and they could teach the kids to get a GCSE (even if it's a really low, bottom grade one).

But now, the school is being closed as Bristol City Council see it as a waste of money, so are going to put these kids that are really unruly and don't turn up to normal schools back into the normal ones...'cause that'll work...

InvG

Tefal · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:36

camels5 said:
Against. hitting a child is wrong

worked well for my mum and dad, their parents and many other generations other past few thousand years.

camels5 · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:37

[DW]Muffin;10842630 said:
No one hits kids quietly playing in the corner

not at school maybe but I was phyiscally abused as a child all I had to do was walk in a room.

InvaderGIR · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:37

daz said:
These are not new problems we're facing; problems that were present during times when everybody hit their kids and every school used the cane.

It's getting worse though, due to the fact people don't discipline their children, and schools can't do it either.

InvG

mrbios · 8 Jan 2008 at 13:38

camels5 said:
Against. hitting a child is wrong, parents and teachers should work together to discipline and educate. The problem is too many parents are scared to discipline.

hitting a child is wrong below a certain age, i reckon CP in secondary school only really, but the teens are the age when they need to learn there place, if they get too arrogant, then its a spiral down a bad path and the only way out is to PROPERLY teach them a lesson.....not just give them an hour of sitting in a room and thats it