Question about referencing for project work

[titaniumx3]

I'm doing a project for my uni course (maths, 3rd year) and I'm not sure about how I should reference some stuff.

For example, say I'm quoting a theorem from a book where the author in turn is quoting a theorem from the original source; should I reference the original source (even though I don't have it) or should I reference the book I do have? (i.e. the secondary source)

I would really appreciate some help on this.

 

[Tefal]

I'm doing a project for my uni course (maths, 3rd year) and I'm not sure about how I should reference some stuff.

For example, say I'm quoting a theorem from a book where the author in turn is quoting a theorem from the original source; should I reference the original source (even though I don't have it) or should I reference the book I do have? (i.e. the secondary source)

I would really appreciate some help on this.

both iirc

And email your tutor to be sure.

 

[meghatronic]

Technically, you should say: "Smith 1999 citing Jones 1835" or words to that effect style depending. Although I usually just reference the primary source.

 

[Deleted member 11679]

For this I would do as follows:

"the work of Smith (see Wilkinson 2008 pp: 12)".

Have a read at Nottingham Trent's citing references document, pretty good:

http://www2.ntu.ac.uk/llr/library/citingrefs.htm

EDIT: Crucial thing to referencing, be consistent!

 

[TheVoice]

The method you use will depend on your uni and your faculty. People here may well end up recommending methods that your uni doesn't use, so you're better off using their own referencing guide.

The way I'd do it (using the Harvard system) is "...(Waddington, 1998 cited in Reiner, 2001: 67)."

You would only put Reiner into your Bibliography though, because you haven't read Waddington's full work.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Almost all Uni's will REQUIRE use of the Havard referencing system - google for it, and follow that system.

 

[Tefal]

Almost all Uni's will REQUIRE use of the Havard referencing system - google for it, and follow that system.

Royal society of chemistry format > Harvard

 

[titaniumx3]

For example say if I make the following statement in my project:

To appreciate the profoundness of the limit concept as given by Bolzano and Cauchy we return to Cauchy’s definition:

“When the values successively attributed to the same variable approach a fixed value indefinitely, in such a way as to end up by differing from it as little as one could wish, this last value is called the limit of all the others.”

And I get the quotation from:

Carl B. Boyer, A History of Mathematics, (New York 1968, p.563)

Who originally gets it from:

Vol. III of Cauchy's Oeuvres complètes (Paris 1882-1932, 25 vols)

How should I present this? (using Havard system)

 

[TheVoice]

Almost all Uni's will REQUIRE use of the Havard referencing system - google for it, and follow that system.

Careful; my faculty uses Harvard, but some of the other faculties here use the Oxford system. He needs to check what his faculty uses and follow their guide.

 

[tj86]

Your university should have a referencing guide somewhere on their site... mine has.

 

[titaniumx3]

Your university should have a referencing guide somewhere on their site... mine has.

Yeah it's basically the standard havard system, but the guide doesn't mention anything about my question (hence my question).

I would ask my tutor but I'm a bit pushed for time, lol.

 

[Doohickey]

I always thought the Vancouver referencing system was the most commonly used one... It's certainly the one I use for my work, and I think most other people I know too. A few people use the Harvard system.

Edit: In the OP's case, this is why the Harvard system can be a bit of a PITA, since the author is cited immediately after the quotation. The Vancouver method you could just number it (bracketed or superscript) twice and put both references at the end of the page or the end of the document.

 

[titaniumx3]

Virtually all my quotes are from secondary sources hence its important to reference it adequately.

Anyway, I read the Nottingham Uni guide TomWilko (thanks!) posted and I think putting "see" in the brackets is the best idea so, from the example in my last post I shall present it as follows:

To appreciate the profoundness of the limit concept as given by Bolzano and Cauchy we return to Cauchy’s definition:

“When the values successively attributed to the same variable approach a fixed value indefinitely, in such a way as to end up by differing from it as little as one could wish, this last value is called the limit of all the others.” (see Boyer, 1968, p.563)

That should be fine I guess?

 

[D.P.]

I'm doing a project for my uni course (maths, 3rd year) and I'm not sure about how I should reference some stuff.

For example, say I'm quoting a theorem from a book where the author in turn is quoting a theorem from the original source; should I reference the original source (even though I don't have it) or should I reference the book I do have? (i.e. the secondary source)

I would really appreciate some help on this.

You would do something like:

"blah blaah blah, and Euler first showed the identity e^pi*i + 1 = 0 (Euler, 1757, cited from Innum Erate, 2006)."

 

[D.P.]

Almost all Uni's will REQUIRE use of the Havard referencing system - google for it, and follow that system.

It depends on the faculty though. Social Science will use Havard, engineering and some science departments will use other methods. Typical for me was IEEE numbered.

And this is the case now. Although I have not published yet on my PhD I write my technical reports in IEE latex formst

 

[Nitefly]

Be very careful about citing references when you don't have them to hand. My Professor stated to someone explicitly not to do it as he goes and looks up every single one up (learning new stuff on hearing is his hobby). If he can't grab it, then how the hell did you?

The best thing is to always reference like this (Wever, 1978 - Cited in Manley, 1990).

Also, numbered refferences are highly irritating and looks inferior, so don't do it just to lower your word count.

 

[titaniumx3]

The thing is with my project, it's almost impossible to get primary sources because they're all either foreign language or some sort of dodgy old english jibber jabber. That's why practically every citation i've put down is from a secondary source.

I've not put down references which I don't have but I have used google books occasionally but nothing that can't be found in a library.

In any I'm just using the refrencing system that comes with word 2007 (harvard system) and it works well; I just have to put "cited by" in all my citations now.

 

[Danger Phoenix]

I am working on an assignment at the moment and I am referencing the original source, regardless of whether I have read it or not. Warwick University generally uses Harvard, but the Warwick Manufacturing Group, where I am situated for my Masters uses APA.

The best course of action would be to ask your tutors, because it all depends on what your university accepts - only someone else at your university can give you the right answer.

 

[D.P.]

Be very careful about citing references when you don't have them to hand. My Professor stated to someone explicitly not to do it as he goes and looks up every single one up (learning new stuff on hearing is his hobby). If he can't grab it, then how the hell did you?

The best thing is to always reference like this (Wever, 1978 - Cited in Manley, 1990).

Also, numbered refferences are highly irritating and looks inferior, so don't do it just to lower your word count.

No, numbered references a much clearer to follow and are the de-facto standard for a great many journals. Many university departments also require numbered references.

And it has nothing to do with word counts because references aren't counted as word counts.

 

[D.P.]

I am working on an assignment at the moment and I am referencing the original source, regardless of whether I have read it or not. Warwick University generally uses Harvard, but the Warwick Manufacturing Group, where I am situated for my Masters uses APA.

The best course of action would be to ask your tutors, because it all depends on what your university accepts - only someone else at your university can give you the right answer.

I would be very careful about citing secondary references as primary. This is plagiarism and punishable by expulsion form the university.