FA Cup 5th Round *Spoilers*

NokkonWud said:
Quite interesting that Liverpool rested 5 first team players, the same as Man Utd and the same as Arsenal I believe.
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Depends on the definition of 'rested' really.
Arsenal were missing 7 players from the starting XI yesterday: Almunia, Clichy, Sagna, Rosicky, Flamini, Adebayor and Van Persie. Several of those had knocks of some sort or other so you could argue that Wenger actually rested fewer players than Fergie depending on how you look at it.

Also with Liverpool it's quite hard to know what the first choice XI is, as it changes all the time anyway.

PS: Eboue is a knob.
 
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O..M..G... I swear some Liverpool fans are delusional. How anyone can defend Benitez for his performance this season is totally shocking, and it provides more evidence to the fact that there are two sets of fans. One set watches the football, the other doesn't.

You can spout off statistics, passed glories, finances and can compare people to your hearts content. But if you actually watched the football and the spirit and performance of the team, then those statistics mean **** all.

Benitez needs to go. He hasn't learned anything, nor has he improved the team in anyway since he first came (Arguable, but he's obviously struggling with new "improved squad." He CHOSE and BOUGHT) His priorities are skewered and in actual fact, the overall performances and team spirit has been considerably damaged due to his total lack of player manageability.

If you want to carry on supporting a man who stubbornly continues to IGNORE his mistakes and fully believes he's doing the right thing, even though he isn't... then sadly you can. Enjoy the battle against EVERTON for 4th place. Everton's Moyes who has spent £100mil less than the supposedly great Benitez, is totally kicking his arse concerning manager skills. Thats probably because he knows how to work his players and have them playing as a team. Something that you simply cant see because you've got your face stuck in the statistics books too much comparing Benitez with other men that exist in other places and worked from other times and in different circumstances.

I mean, its not like we're even "improving" on the field or that you can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Its not the fact that we're losing these games, its more to do with how we're losing them and the teams performance... and sickeningly at how ineffective Benitez is as fixing the problems. Instead he keeps contributing to them. The entire team look like they haven't got a clue whats going on between themselves.

Theres just no potential left in the man, hes just going backwards. The only reason for his success in past competitions with Liverpool was due to having a smaller squad and so he had his hand forced (Thus no pathetic tactics or rotation and so the team knew eachother.) Oh and there was a little person called Steven Gerrard who literally dragged us by the scruff of the neck and won those things for us.

Its getting to the point now where we could finish below 4th, get knocked out of every cup and still there would be idiots wanting Benitez in. "Ohh he needs time. He needs another £100mil to spend." Meanwhile Moyes for Everton is spending nowhere near that, has nowhere near the talent or size of squad, but he is actually concentrating on doing his job as a "good manager."

I pray to the gods that Dubai come in, get rid of the Americans and throw Benitez out of the club head first. Get a manager in whose not a stubborn old man, someone who does regular "reality checks" in the mornings and knows that players aren't computer generated football manager sprites, and actually need real-world "interaction" with a football and other players from the same team on a regular basis.

Liverpool have gone/are going through, a very bad stage. We need a new clean slate, something totally new with a fresh foundation of people who want the same thing, and have the right ideas in how to get it. The club is in disarray across the pitch and the boardroom and it needs fresh input to get the entire club out of the blackhole we've dug ourselves in, not more excuses for the people that are as equally responsible for the problems we face.
 
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got to agree with Wenger, our pitch is a disgrace at the moment. it didn't show so much yesterday but it's harming our game currently. we should have enough wonga to get it up to scratch for every game.
 
jamrag said:
Baz i have a lot of respect for your posts on this forum and knowledge of football but i cant believe you can put Liverpools shortcomings down to backroom unrest.
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I haven't put them completely down to the ownership problems but i'd be shocked if they hadn't had an affect.

Our problems on the whole have been down to a number of factors: the problem with the owners, too many injuries to key players, players under performing as well as some questionable decisions by Rafa.

The decision to leave Torres (Gerrard to a lesser extent as he was still injured) out vs Pompey has proved costly; we were flying at the time and a win there would have set us up nicely for a fairly easy run of fixtures. We drew that and seemed to lose our momentum over the next few games and have since struggled to pick up.

The injury to Agger has been huge, we were short at the back to begin with and Hyypia hasn't been up to it. Despite our defensive record being quite good we haven't looked as solid at the back this season as we've not been able to play a steady back 4; thats been down to constant injuries Finnan, Arbeloa and Aurelio. We've had serious problems when Torres has been out too; Kuyt and Crouch's (which doesn't get highlighted like Kuyts) form this season has been terrible and if Gerrard or Torres haven't scored we've not looked like scoring. Its been the same problem as previous seasons regarding goals/creativity from midfield; Babel's taking time adapting, Pennant had a decent start to the season but is not the standard of player we need and although Benayoun has looked decent vs the lesser sides he's just not up to it against the top sides (opposite of Luis Garcia who performed vs the top sides and went missing in the smaller games).
 
Baz everything you say there seems to make sense (im no Liverpool expert) but it only goes to emphasise the importance of playing the top team in the cup game. I just cant get past that. Yes, any team they put out should beat barnsley in theory but why take the chance when you are under the microscope already?
 
jamrag said:
Baz everything you say there seems to make sense (im no Liverpool expert) but it only goes to emphasise the importance of playing the top team in the cup game. I just cant get past that. Yes, any team they put out should beat barnsley in theory but why take the chance when you are under the microscope already?
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He's taken the chance because its more important to beat Inter than it is to beat Barnsley and because a weakened side should beat Barnsley where as if you want to beat Inter you're going to need to be at full strength.

Maybe if Benitez was more concerned with avoiding stick from the press rather than doing whats best for the team then he should have played his full team. But when you have a huge match vs Inter (and if that match is your priority, which it is) in a few days you have to take calculated risks in regards to your selection.
 
He could be proved right and get a result against Inter but unless he goes on to reach the final its not going to look very smart. Why can a top international player not play on saturday and play again in midweek.
 
They can play twice a week but i'd imagine they wouldn't be as 'fresh' and there's also the risk of injury. Like i said its a calculated risk, the side should have been good enough to win so the risk of playing Gerrard etc wasn't worth taking.
 
jamrag said:
How big an effect do you think that assistant leaving has had?
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Imo it's had plenty to do with team playing so poor of late, form dipped shorty after Paco left, and far as im aware Rafa's still not filled the vacancy? Press quote from a while back >

"Seen as the link between the dressing room and Rafael Benitez, many were surprised at the fall out between the two who had been considered as inseparable. Despite plenty of assurances to the contrary, the move undoubtedly had an impact and it is surprising, if not unusual, that Benitez has chosen against appointing someone in Ayesteran's place. Rumours that the job had been offered to Gary McAllister have proven to be off the mark but it would seem that an appointment will eventually be made."
 
Paco Di Miguel (all Rafa's coaches seem to be called Paco) was brought in before Ayesteran left to assist him in his job, which is why nobody was brought in to replace him.

The appointment of Di Miguel was said to be one of the reasons why Ayesteran left; he felt marginalised.
 
The draw could be quite interesting tomorrow.

I'm still not sure whether I'd like to draw Chelsea tomorrow or not, as we're probably the only side left that are capable of beating them - though stranger things have happened this year in the cup.

I think it's stupid for anyone to be comparing Rafa's first few years with Fergies, Fergies started in the late 80's and football as a whole was very different then... heck the premiership wasn't even around then.

Fergie took over a team on the slide, and it was a good result for us to finish 11th really.

Yes every manager should be given time to build a squad, and I'm sure at the time there was an out cry for Fergie to be outted as expectations were so huge.

United were not the force they are today when Fergie took us over, we didn't have the money when he took over.

Liverpool are supposed to be one of the biggest squads in England, I can't believe some people are thinking it'll be okay to fight for a fourth place finish.

Any year United don't finish first I feel dissapointed.

I'd also say that anyone saying the side that Rafa picked for the games against Barnsley and Havant weren't up to scratch are fools, just in the same way some Arsenal fans are saying the squads picked to play Spurs and us weren't good enough and thats why they lost so heavily.

Liverpool very nearly got embarrsed by Havant a few weeks ago, and against better opposition this weekend they did get embarressed.

It seems to me that the players have lost confidence in Rafa, and all the distractions of fan protests against the owners, talks of new managers (Jurgen) and talks of Rafa constantly looking like he's getting the sack is doing nothing for them in terms of morale.

Surely, whether you like Rafa or not... it's time for him to go?

When Jol went from Spurs, the fans were gutted... but Ramos has done wonders for them and they seem like a new side with a new sense of belief.

Jose at Chelsea, phenominal record in the time he spent there... things went wrong quickly, a poor spell of results and he's sacked. A new man is brought in and Avram Grant has picked up where Jose left off in the last couple of seasons.

Surely a new manager and a new sense of self belief for the players is just what Liverpool need now? Sooner rather than later, so that you will get back into Europe next season without having to scrap for it through the league.
 
Taken from ESPNsoccernet:

Legendary Liverpool defender Tommy Smith has launched a stinging criticism of Reds boss Rafael Benitez after his side were knocked out of the FA Cup by Barnsley.


Brian Howard's injury-time winner at Anfield dumped Liverpool out of yet another competition, leaving them with just the Champions League - in which they face Inter Milan this week - to contest.

And Smith, who captained Liverpool to the 1971 league and UEFA Cup double, has hit out at Benitez's controversial rotation policy and decision to rest several key players for yesterday's visit of the Coca-Cola Championship side.

Smith told BBC Radio Five Live: 'In the programme for yesterday's game Benitez said cup competitions are always dangerous if you think you can beat teams easily. So why on earth didn't he put a strong team out against Barnsley?'

Smith admitted Reds fans may finally start to run out of patience with the Spanish boss.

'I should imagine so. At the end of the day Bill Shankly used to tell us you're only as good as your last result. How on earth does Benitez think he's going to win stuff if he puts a second-class team out?

'Because Liverpool's squad is not as strong as I think he thought at the beginning of the season. I don't think he's even got a strong first XI.

'How could he leave (Jose) Reina, (Steven) Gerrard and (Javier) Mascherano out?'

Smith admitted the last-16 European tie with Inter is now do-or-die.

'I'm afraid so,' he said. 'He keeps going on about winning four cups and all that but at the end of the day it's not even entertaining at Anfield at the moment. The crowd keep it going but they booed everybody at the end of the game and quite rightly.

'The first person you put on the team-sheet is Gerrard. How on earth could he sit on the bench for 75 minutes and watch that...then he (Benitez) talks about chances. Well, they've gone. You can't score after the game finishes.'

Completely agree with everything Tommy Smith says there. I think the biggest problem is that the players know that Rafa is off at the end of the season. If you knew your boss was off shortly, would you try your hardest or perform to your full potential?

Bit of a shame how Rafa's tenure is ending but hopefully he will shock us all by winning the European cup again :D
 
Would you still agree on Gerrard, Mascherano and Reina playing had one of them picked up an injury that meant they missed the Inter tie?

The players who were selected were more than good enough to beat Barnsley and if we're in a position where we're relying on them for that sort of game then we've got serious problems.

Like it or not, the FA cup is no longer regarded like it was 20 years ago and even though we're out, i have no problems with the decision to rest those players.
 
Whether he left Reina, Gerrard, Mascherano and Torres out or not... that side should have beat Barnsley quite comfortably.

It's not like the side you put out yesterday was full of youth and inexperience.

Your back four were Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise... full of experience and ability.

Xabi Alonso, Lucas, Banayoun and Babel in midfield... okay some young talent there, but all on paper better than anything Barnsley should have been able to offer.

Kuyt and Crouch up front - both of whom should have been good enough to finish off Barnsley.

It just looks like most of the Liverpool squad can't be bothered any more and have given up on this season.

edit: We'll see what happens against Inter midweek if I'm proved wrong, perhaps they'll be different as you still could have a chance of winning the Champions League.
 
Sure the players selected on paper were more than good enough to beat barnsley. But they didn't.

I do agree with your logic about the inter tie and those players are far more valuable in that tie. The bit of Tommy Smiths interview that really struck a note with me was the bit about it not even being entertaining at Anfield anymore.

I probably wont be bothering to go to any more games at Anfield this season other than the derby (am away for the Inter tie otherwise I would have been there). I don't mind sitting through 90 mins of good football then getting beat. Sitting through 90 mins of rubbish is something I will not tolerate.
 
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