Ford RS Cosworths

[helpimcrap]

I remember Clarkson saying that he owned one during the 80's when they happened to be the car theif's fav choice. He said that the insurance company wanted £18K to insure it.

I was having a conversation about cossies in the local pub with a cosworth owner. he says that other than a cosworth engine he would only ever consider owning a supra as their engines are supposed to be equally as good as the cosworth with 600bhp being achievable without having to change any internals.

yeah, the only downside being - try finding a manual. they seem to be pretty rare as most pepped up supras use an auto box as theyre able to handle more power.

 

[helpimcrap]

Power to weight is all about how quickly it gets to speed X not how quickly X might be. Gearing can have a big impact on both outright speed and aceleration and areo becomes more and more important as the speed raises. The influence of gearing is best observed in Group B rally cars and rally cross cars with 600bhp and 120mph top speeds.

therealnerd2 - he's ^ right you know. once above 70mph aerodynamics becomes a big influence in top speed.

sadly the sierra is a bit box like but it makes its speed via big power and actually not weighing too much for its size.

 

[atpbx]

I think people forget that, none of these Cosworths are standard anymore.
You are not buying the car ford made, which was for its time a rapid saloon, you are buying a car that bears as much resemblance to its original form as Micheal Jackson does now to the man who made the "Thriller" album.

 

[helpimcrap]

I think people forget that, none of these Cosworths are standard anymore.
You are not buying the car ford made, which was for its time a rapid saloon, you are buying a car that bears as much resemblance to its original form as Micheal Jackson does now to the man who made the "Thriller" album.

you would be hard pushed to find any 20 year old car thats standard. especially a performance car... why replace knackered suspension with expensive OE kit when you can get a spax or avo?

same goes for exhausts etc... might as well buy a stainless.

i used to do it on my cars - replace as and when worn out.

good news is if you're buying a cossie, most of these bits have been done for you and so if you were going to do them - it saves you money.

mint standard cossies often fetch more money than lightly tuned ones. there's a couple of stock 4x4 cossies near me and both both must be concours!

 

[atpbx]

you would be hard pushed to find any 20 year old car thats standard. especially a performance car... why replace knackered suspension with expensive OE kit when you can get a spax or avo?

same goes for exhausts etc... might as well buy a stainless.

i used to do it on my cars - replace as and when worn out.

good news is if you're buying a cossie, most of these bits have been done for you and so if you were going to do them - it saves you money.

mint standard cossies often fetch more money than lightly tuned ones. there's a couple of stock 4x4 cossies near me and both both must be concours!

You are missing the point a little bit.
There are cars say like, a 20 year old 911, that are going around today, that are still more or less the same 911 that rolled out of the show room, yes it may well have a stainless exhaust, had a respray on some panels, new brakes etc etc.
What it wont have is its engine completely overhauled with almost all the internals replaced higher spec componants and a dustbin sized turbo, completely different suspension set up, wheels, brakes, interior blah blah.

When someone says RS cosworth, i see the 220 brake horse power kevin mobile from 1990.
When others hear it, it conjures up visions of 600bhp cars that have had £30k spent on modifications that result in there being little more than the shell of the standard car left. ( i exaggerate a little of course)

 

[helpimcrap]

You are missing the point a little bit.
There are cars say like, a 20 year old 911, that are going around today, that are still more or less the same 911 that rolled out of the show room, yes it may well have a stainless exhaust, had a respray on some panels, new brakes etc etc.
What it wont have is its engine completely overhauled with almost all the internals replaced higher spec componants and a dustbin sized turbo, completely different suspension set up, wheels, brakes, interior blah blah.

When someways RS cosworth, i see the 220 brake horse power kevin mobile from 1990.
When others hear it, it conjures up visions of 600bhp cars that have had £30k spent on modifications that result in there being little more than the shell of the standard car left. ( i exaggerate a little of course)

i get your point now, but when you said

I think people forget that, none of these Cosworths are standard anymore.
You are not buying the car ford made, which was for its time a rapid saloon, you are buying a car that bears as much resemblance to its original form as Micheal Jackson does now to the man who made the "Thriller" album.

i was under the impression you were talking about them being standard - not the perception.

 

[andymac]

The original Cosworths were great fun, they drove well, and steered well at the time. The problem is that most have been stolen, abused, modified badly, broken, bend, badly repaired, or are now so overpriced as to be silly. If you are after a good modern performance car, there are much better ways of spending your money. I owned a saph cos in the late 90s. At the time it was great fun, 2wd in rain, with a breathed on 330bhp. I parked it backwards in a hedge, and bent it. Fixed, it and sold it on! So will be the way with many of these cars!

Toyota Supras are more fun, especially the 3,0 turbo ones. I also like Seat Leons as drivers cars, bit porky though!

 

[therealnerd2]

therealnerd2 - he's ^ right you know. once above 70mph aerodynamics becomes a big influence in top speed.

Yeah I know - I'm just staying quiet and hoping my post will fade into oblivion

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Beneath the Cosworthyness and the cool image it is a Ford Sierra.

In 1990, this was acceptable. In 2008, unless you are a comitted enthusiast, it is not.

Just like in 2023, people will think the same about Mondeo ST220's.

st220 has never been anything like the Cosworths were to most enthusiasts in their hay day.

 

[therealnerd2]

ST220? Tuneable?

 

[hiroofheroes]

ST220? Tuneable?

At stock of course they're not that tunable. Your never going to have the flexibility of a turbocharged engine with a NA one.

Once ford starts releasing the turbo v6's under the twinforce/ecoboost names you'll see people adding the turbo kit to the st220. The duratec is quite tunable once you add a turbo or supercharger, but not on the same level as the cosworth engines unless you want to completely strip and rebuild with upratated internals.

 

[AndrewP]

How much work do Noble do to their engines other than adding the turbos?

 

[[TW]Fox]

st220 has never been anything like the Cosworths were to most enthusiasts in their hay day.

You've completely missed the point (Although I cannot say I am suprised). I was saying that underneath a Cosworth is a Sierra, and at the end of the day, it is a 17 year old Sierra which you wouldnt want to use as a daily driver.

In exactly the same way that irrespective of how good a Mondeo is today, you'd not want to use the same car as a daily driver in 2023.

The reason I said Mondeo is becuase Mondeo replaced Sierra and ST220 was the performance variant.

Happy now?

 

[therealnerd2]

At stock of course they're not that tunable. Your never going to have the flexibility of a turbocharged engine with a NA one.

Once ford starts releasing the turbo v6's under the twinforce/ecoboost names you'll see people adding the turbo kit to the st220. The duratec is quite tunable once you add a turbo or supercharger, but not on the same level as the cosworth engines unless you want to completely strip and rebuild with upratated internals.

Interesting - thanks. What cars in the UK might have these turbod duratecs do you know?

 

[Matt82]

for some reason the sierra cosworth has much more wow factor, maybe its the sort of touring car racing it was involved in back in the day.

i barely know anyone who wouldnt go wow at a decent cosworth and i barely know anyone who would go wow at a st220, which is odd considering both are performance variants of what were ultimately very common or garden cars

 

[therealnerd2]

i barely know anyone who wouldnt go wow at a decent cosworth and i barely know anyone who would go wow at a st220, which is odd considering both are performance variants of what were ultimately very common or garden cars

Is that not purely because Decent Sierras are incredibly rare now. I know that would be a large factor for me anyway.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Matt, you are missing the point. Grrr this is painful. I'm not comparing their performance credentials, their image, their history or their heritage. Merely the actual car beneath.

Whether people at the side of the road go wow or not has absolutely no bearing on whether the interior creaks, the plastic starts to fade and the shell feels like it's had it.

A Cosworth is, at the end of the day, a Ford Sierra. Most people therefore would not consider one as a daily driver over newer cars for the same reason as, in 2023, people wouldn't consider a 2006 ST220. That was my point, as someone above asked why more people dont want to own a Cosworth.

 

[bigchez]

Matt, you are missing the point. Grrr this is painful. I'm not comparing their performance credentials, their image, their history or their heritage. Merely the actual car beneath.

Whether people at the side of the road go wow or not has absolutely no bearing on whether the interior creaks, the plastic starts to fade and the shell feels like it's had it.

A Cosworth is, at the end of the day, a Ford Sierra. Most people therefore would not consider one as a daily driver over newer cars for the same reason as, in 2023, people wouldn't consider a 2006 ST220. That was my point, as someone above asked why more people dont want to own a Cosworth.

NO creaks or rattles here. Do have a couple of small cracks from the centre speaker on the dash along with 90% of them, but that's it. My shell doesn't feel anywhere near like its had it either. But then, my 1986 sierra has done 20k less than my 2003 mondeo.

I don't think people don't use cossies as daily drivers due to interior ergonomics. If you are the sort of person bothered by soft touch plastics and delicately arranged instrument clusters with handcrafted aluminium cup holders then a cos is not for you, as it is like you say, an old sierra. But then mine has a retro cool illuminated picture of the car which shows if the doors are open, and has a star on it when its cold and likely to be icy. As a car to drive they're not that bad!

They are not used daily as they are very expensive to run (around 150 miles per 60 litre tank of v-power when giving it man foot ), can be unreliable simply due to age and you would constantly worry about where you had parked it. Many owners also go on limited mileage classic policies to get insurance for a reasonable rate. Keeping mileage off keeps the value up .They are a pain to drive in traffic as well. I love it to bits as a weekend blaster, but would very soon get fed up with it as a daily driver, particularly in the wet. That's why they're not used daily by many people.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I am talking about the question asked above, which was 'As Cosworths are so good, why dont people buy them instead of other performance cars'. I'm not discussing why owners may or may not use them on a regular basis etc

 

[Lopéz]

'As Cosworths are so good, why dont people buy them instead of other performance cars'.

Because they are old and look like Ford Sierras. They are not modern, they are not nice inside, they are not quiet and refined, they are going to need an MOT and probably some remedial work annually, they are going to look a bit tacky in the works car park.

That's not what *I* think, but I'm an enthusiast and I can put aside stuff like that. For the vast majority of people who want a fast car, a tuned 1987 Ford Sierra would not even figure in a shortlist of 50.

I was raving about a tuned Opel Kadett the other day in work, but most people (even ones who drive modern performance cars) just looked at it and said "Yeah great, but it's vile and I wouldn't be seen dead in it"