2008 Monaco GP - Race 6/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
- Start date
Yep.
I'm sure, MS, in his advisory capacity, is telling Ferrari to do this. Usually they wait till around half the season, then pick the driver to back.
I'm hoping for Hamilton to win the title this year, so I shall be hoping that Ferrari dont resort to that tactic, as this will make it difficult for Hamilton.
At this point, I must say that the season is panning out well, with 3 people in the running to win the title. Pre-season, I thought we might have a Ferrari 1-2 in the WDC, however, it looks like Hamilton might prevent this.
Cant wait for Vettel to climb into the Red Bull again.
Is it a done deal?
You're only allowed to make one blocking move to prevent someone overtaking. So not quite sure how this theorised Ferrari tactic against Hamilton would work
And that move would soon be up on a track like Monaco
You're only allowed to make one blocking move to prevent someone overtaking. So not quite sure how this theorised Ferrari tactic against Hamilton would work
Its not hard these days to have a rear gunner run 1/2 second a lap slower and let the leader get a pitstops grace in time. Providing they where 1st and 2nd after the start they control the pace of hamilton. Imagine how easy that would have been at monaco. Within 10 laps they could have let a ferrari get away by 30 seconds.
You're only allowed to make one blocking move to prevent someone overtaking. So not quite sure how this theorised Ferrari tactic against Hamilton would work
You dont need to do a blatant blocking move.
First off, I think we all know that unless you are considerably quicker than the guy in front of you, you probably wont get past him. This means that if Massa, for example, gets in front of Hamilton and increases his lap time by say 1.5s. This would be enough to ensure that no rules are broken as weaving on the track wont be necessary. By following Massa, Hamilton's corning speed will be compromised, allowing Kimi to pull away by say 1.5s/lap. 15 laps later, pit stops will begin, however, by then, Kimi will have a nice cushion. If Hamilton gets frustrated and tries to overtake, Massa could close the door and take himself and Hamilton out.
This is how things were done in the old days. Indeed MS did this in the year he broke his leg. He came back for the remaining races to assist Irvine and blocked the 3rd place man, allowing Irvine, in the lead to open up a gap. Its perfectly legal and has been done many times in the past.
Also, if we believe the conspiracy theory that the FIA are there to assist Ferrari, then even if Massa does weave a little, he will probably get away with it.
You had better make a call to Ron then, and tell him to drop Heiki because he is cursed! Never heard such tosh in my life!
How could he have helped ANY of the things that happened to him!?!? I don't hear him complaining that much. Most other drivers would be worse.
Oh please! There have been HUNDREDS of occasions when quicker drivers have been stuck behind slower cars at Monaco for lap after lap. Plus how could he overtake when off line it would have been very dirty (all the wet tyres giving up lots of rubber when the drying line started to appear) and it was still wet?! Stop with the Heiki bashing. The facts outweigh your opinion.
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Complete tosh I'm afraid. The racing was much simpler in the MS years and it helped that he had friends in the FIA and F1 Administration. Ferrari had a much much better car in many of these seasons. And the holding up was only done in some races where things just fell right for it to be done.You dont need to do a blatant blocking move.
First off, I think we all know that unless you are considerably quicker than the guy in front of you, you probably wont get past him. This means that if Massa, for example, gets in front of Hamilton and increases his lap time by say 1.5s. This would be enough to ensure that no rules are broken as weaving on the track wont be necessary. By following Massa, Hamilton's corning speed will be compromised, allowing Kimi to pull away by say 1.5s/lap. 15 laps later, pit stops will begin, however, by then, Kimi will have a nice cushion. If Hamilton gets frustrated and tries to overtake, Massa could close the door and take himself and Hamilton out.
This is how things were done in the old days. Indeed MS did this in the year he broke his leg. He came back for the remaining races to assist Irvine and blocked the 3rd place man, allowing Irvine, in the lead to open up a gap. Its perfectly legal and has been done many times in the past.
Also, if we believe the conspiracy theory that the FIA are there to assist Ferrari, then even if Massa does weave a little, he will probably get away with it.
Nowadays Ferrari would have to be on exactly the same pit stop strategy, fuel load, tyre choice, etc etc etc, to be able to hold someone back. The slighest variable unaccounted for and the held up guy will be past.
Now that MS is gone and isn't coming back any driver trying to repeat his past exploits (like delibrately crashing to prevent rivals qualifying, holding up other cars, or delibrately crashing his WDC rival out of the race and winning by default on points) would be quickly stamped out.
Let's not forget this is a commercial business. MS was brought in to increase F1 popularity in germany and hence commercial deals, sponsorship etc, money money money. Hamilton was brought in for the same reason. It is no coincidence that just as the Silverstone contract is set to expire and looks to be on rocky ground that Hamilton joins F1 to spruce things up. So yes, Hamilton definately has his supporters in the FIA/F1 Admin as well. Do you think the FIA/F1 Admin will let anyone maliciously hurt Hamilton's WDC chances this year? Because allowing anyone to do so would seriously hurt the renewal of the Silverstone contract.
As I said, it's just a theory. In practice it would never work.
OK so clearly you don't like Heikki. I do and many other people do. He still hasn't proven himself but IMO it has been no fault of his own.
Yes he made a small mistake with the safety car in Monoco. In what was such an eventful race for the young chap is it any surprise that he perhaps lost his head by the end of the race? Every rookie has moments like these sometimes.
Personally I find the whole "voodoo luck" thing about your opinion of Heikki rather strange but amusing
Yes there is a luck involved in this sport but let's not take it too far shall we? We can all have our opinions.
The point I'm making is that he is not in the same class as Hamilton, even some people are deluding themselves into believing that this is the case. The points totals that Hamilton has racked over the last 18 months is proof enough: Hamilton (147) - Heikki (45). A pattern is emerging that will be difficult for any driver to turn around.
Hamilton has been in F1 for as long as Heikki. We can make a direct comparison. Hamilton won, while Heikki finished way back. Hamilton made a mistake, but came back by using overwhelming speed. Thats the difference between a top class driver and an also ran.
This season will prove if I'm wrong or I'm right, but I'm willing to bet that no matter how much good will is behind Heikki, he will continue to be comprehensively outscored by Hamilton.
It seems to me that if Hamilton were to even tripple Heikki's points total, that still wont be enough to convince the Heikki lovers on this board.
At some point you just have to accept facts.
The point I'm making is that he is not in the same class as Hamilton, even some people are deluding themselves into believing that this is the case. The points totals that Hamilton has racked over the last 18 months is proof enough: Hamilton (147) - Heikki (45). A pattern is emerging that will be difficult for any driver to turn around.
Hamilton has been in F1 for as long as Heikki. We can make a direct comparison. Hamilton won, while Heikki finished way back. Hamilton made a mistake, but came back by using overwhelming speed. Thats the difference between a top class driver and an also ran.
This season will prove if I'm wrong or I'm right, but I'm willing to bet that no matter how much good will is behind Heikki, he will continue to be comprehensively outscored by Hamilton.
It seems to me that if Hamilton were to even tripple Heikki's points total, that still wont be enough to convince the Heikki lovers on this board.
At some point you just have to accept facts.
Soldato
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Difference is that Heikki came into a team that struggled last season while Hamilton went straight into the joint best team. Hamilton is clearly a very special talent but Heikki could also turn out to be much better than an also-ran. Only time will tell.
You cant use this as an excuse for why MS was able to overtake/win, etc
A driver can only make best use of the rules with which he has to compete under. MS made great use of the rules in his time, just as he would be smart enough to do so in 2008.
A top driver 10yrs ago will also be a top driver in 2008. It doesnt matter how many rules are changed or how many driver aids are used. We are seeing this already this year, where the top drivers of 2007 are also the top drivers of 2008 - rules have changed, but the status quo remains the same.
In F1 (and other formulae), there have been many fast drivers. But, to mix that speed with a strategic, cool head is what seems to separate the greats from the also-ran. IMO, Heikki might actually be quicker than Hamilton, over a single lap - he has put in more fastest laps than Hamilton and I think he is about even in qualifying - but, he doesnt seem to be able to think calmly and objectively during the race, to think how he can overtake someone or get ahead in the race. MS was fantastic at this. Example:
At Silverstone, he was running 2nd behind Hill. He was in a Bennetton, I think, but was only marginally quicker. He came out of the pits and was running close and it appeared that he was trying to get past Hill for 2 laps. On the 3rd lap he got past. Later on, it transpired that MS was not trying to get past hill on the first 2 laps, but was actually going off the driving line, to clean up the area of the track that he believed he would be putting in his ovetaking manouvre. He did this for 2 laps and on the 3rd he made use of that "clean" piece of track, successfully overtaking Hill.
Do you honestly believe that Heikki would be capable of thinking in this manner?
Its certainly possible.
But how long would you give the guy?
10 races?
A whole season?
2 Seasons?
At some point, a team boss has to call time.
Personally, I would say that a driver should be given a full season, with a guarantee that he wont have to fight for his job at every GP, as sometimes the pressure of losing your job can actually make things worse. Renault, for example, are putting Piquet under a lot of pressure, already.
Very true. But remind me again, what was Kovy driving last year? Was it one of the top two cars in the field? A car that was the fastest on many occasions throughout the season? A car that probably ought to have produced a driver's champion if the team hadn't decided to press the Self Destruct Button Of Ultimate Justice™?
Was it heck
Had they been in equal cars all that time, your point might be rather more valid. I honestly think Heikki will get a couple of wins this season if McLaren give him the opportunity.
That's not a fair comparison - last years Renault wasn't up to much.
Heikki's fast over a single lap, but he's no Jarno Trulli (ie useless in the race). Heikki won the RoC a couple of years back and bloodied the "great" Schumachers nose in the process. Since everyone is comparing Lewis to Senna then Heikki's holding up well compared to Berger who was no slouch.
Heikki's had to get used to a new car and had a bad luck start to the reason with a nasty shunt in Spain that wasn't his fault. I think he deserves to have the the second half of the seasons results taken on merit before anyone denounces him as useless.