Obama vs Mccain

Johnnytoxic · 6 Jun 2008 at 11:52

drunkenmaster said:
The president is only marginally more powerful than other political people these days, and by using his veto power, he normally hurts himself more than harms himself. His best shot at change and hurting big business is just to veto every single last bill in the house, nothing will get worse, nothing will get better either though.

If I was president, I would do some under the table deals by saying "If you let my bill go through I won't veto one of yours".

I bet this sort of thing happens all the time.

Von Luck · 6 Jun 2008 at 11:52

I'd be amazed if Obama doesn't win - purely based on the relative charisma of the candidates. McCain is a seriously creepy coffin-dodger, while Obama comes across like JFK with a great tan.

Tefal · 6 Jun 2008 at 11:55

Duggan said:
Ok instead of others that cant Google the answers them self’s.....

Basically the 2 points I like him for
One. Obama wants to change the health service/system in the states (which is needed). As I'm not American this does not affect me but after seeing first hand how much some people pay for there health insurance to which they dont get a lot is shocking and needs change.

.

SO the only thing he wants to change the health service (you haven't said to what though :/ )

And marginally speed up the Iraq withdrawal.

People just seam to keep spouting (himself included) that he's going to change things but seem unable to answer what he's going to change, what he's going to change it tom or if it's actually good idea.

Dugganator · 6 Jun 2008 at 11:59

I never said that pulling out would be straight away and anyone that thinks this is possible is stupid. All I said was as soon as possible and 2012 is a relistic date.

Health care wise I have many friends in the states and I'm just honestly going on what they tell me but to be honest they pay a lot more $2000 and dont seem to get a lot.(whether its better then the nhs or not) Maybe it all depends on the states you live i have no idea I dont live there. But more to the point I liked hearing he would be aiming towards a fairer system for everyone rich or poor.

cu3ed · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:00

Tefal said:
SO the only thing he wants to change the health service (you haven't said to what though :/ )

And marginally speed up the Iraq withdrawal.

People just seam to keep spouting (himself included) that he's going to change things but seem unable to answer what he's going to change, what he's going to change it tom or if it's actually good idea.

Actually go and check to what he has done as Senator, he changed a lot for his state, as where Hillary's experience...well she has done nothign and is looking like she wouldnt get her seat again in NY.

He has already done a lot fo young US people by literally stirring some soul into the whole thing.

Also he is looking to dring forgein policy back to what America was like pre WWII where America lived on it own, and that worked.

AGD · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:05

drunkenmaster said:
WEll I read it on Obama's site so...............

http://factcheck.barackobama.com/

about 1/4 of the way down, under Response to McCain attack on Iran. His site says he consponsored the bill to do this. I'm not saying its wrong, he's probably right here, but again I'm saying, this is just another situation where he's no different to McCain or any other president. He isn't some peace loving twit, he will take exactly the same action anyone else would take, if those guys need taking out(sounds more and more likely) he'll make the same decision as anyone else.

This idea that he's a free thinking, anti war, peace loving, change bringing candidate is ridiculous. On all the main issues he'll do same as everyone else, all his proposed changes for the future, are literally impossible to bring about, its america, its run by the guys with money, not the guy who could veto bills but won't. IT simply will not matter whose in charge to a large degree. However McCain, in working with the rest of the people in washington rather than flipping them the middle finger, is more likely to be able to add in some small changes for the good along with everything else. Obama just has no chance of that at all.

Again you haven't read the whole article. He disagreed with the passage in the resolution which seemed to open up the possibility of military action with iran so wouldn't have voted for the resolution.

Dugganator · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:08

Tefal said:
SO the only thing he wants to change the health service (you haven't said to what though :/ )

And marginally speed up the Iraq withdrawal.

People just seam to keep spouting (himself included) that he's going to change things but seem unable to answer what he's going to change, what he's going to change it tom or if it's actually good idea.

well I listed the things I like him for. Once again why cant you look and make your mind up instead of jumping saying you want more reason seems kind of pointless. If i like him for one reason thats my decision isnt it. If I like him for a 100 reasons still its my decision. whether its right or wrong

Point being I could have just gone and cut and paste everything from Obama website. My view is I dont like Mccan for the reasons that he reminds me to much of Bush to some levels and Obama is the only other option now. So if I was to vote thats the way I would vote. Obama doesnt have everything right but its a 2 horse race and isnt that the point of choosing?

AGD · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:10

Tefal said:
SO the only thing he wants to change the health service (you haven't said to what though :/ )

And marginally speed up the Iraq withdrawal.

People just seam to keep spouting (himself included) that he's going to change things but seem unable to answer what he's going to change, what he's going to change it tom or if it's actually good idea.

Why don't you go and look up his policies on healthcare, education, foreign policy etc rather than asking people on a forum and then complaining when they don't give detailed answers. How many McCain policies do you know btw?

KNiVES · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:10

Lots of confused 'I don't know what Obama stands for' people here. If you're gonna argue over candidates at least do some research;

Barack Obama
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

John McCain as well
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

Simply going 'but what has he said' on the basis that the majority of his speeches are simply rhetoric aimed at driving a clear message that he is for changing a lot of aspects of government is absolute rubbish. Both nominees running for presidency have their vast manifestos and plans laid out as any proper candidate is expected to be when they're running for presidency.

Don't be stupid people.

Dugganator · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:12

KNiVES said:
Lots of confused 'I don't know what Obama stands for' people here. If you're gonna argue over candidates at least do some research;

Barack Obama
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

John McCain as well
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

Simply going 'but what has he said' on the basis that the majority of his speeches are simply rhetoric aimed at driving a clear message that he is for changing a lot of aspects of government is absolute rubbish. Both nominees running for presidency have their vast manifestos and plans laid out as any proper candidate is expected to be when they're running for presidency.

Don't be stupid people.

Well said and was the point I was getting it at really.

Tefal · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:12

Duggan said:
well I listed the things I like him for. Once again why cant you look and make your mind up instead of jumping saying you want more reason seems kind of pointless. If i like him for one reason thats my decision isnt it. If I like him for a 100 reasons still its my decision. whether its right or wrong

I have made up my mine. I was asking about your reason for liking him other than he uses the word "change" a lot.

But then again asking the reasoning behind another's decision is clearly well beyond the bounds of reasonable debate and I should be chastised for daring to even ask it.

Tefal · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:16

KNiVES said:
Lots of confused 'I don't know what Obama stands for' people here. If you're gonna argue over candidates at least do some research;

Barack Obama
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

Don't be stupid people.

Reduce Carbon Emissions 80 Percent by 2050

Pretty tall order isn't it?

Again massive over stretching election promises that will never be done.

KNiVES · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:19

There are plenty of other issues and unrealistic plans in both's manifestos. Personally Obama has far bigger issues than an optimistic take on carbon emissions; like pandering to Israel and undermining the peace process for one.

Emphasis should be placed on far greater topics at hand if people are to be single-issue voters. I'll be damned if people vote over petty topics instead of substantial issues.

Dugganator · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:21

Tefal said:
I have made up my mine. I was asking about your reason for liking him other than he uses the word "change" a lot.

But then again asking the reasoning behind another's decision is clearly well beyond the bounds of reasonable debate and I should be chastised for daring to even ask it.

I gave my reasons and then you went on to basically say that I only listed 2 reasons and that wasnt enough. As everyone else who agreed with me could see. who is honestly going to list every point ..... no one will. I gave you an answer but for some reason you didnt want to accepted that. Thats the point that most people picked up on. You can question that all you want but thats my reasons for saying I would vote for him if I could.

Tefal · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:22

Duggan said:
I gave my reasons and then you went on to basically say that I only listed 2 reasons and that wasnt enough. As everyone else who agreed with me could see. who is honestly going to list every point ..... no one will. I gave you an answer but for some reason you didnt want to accepted that. Thats the point that most people picked up on. You can question that all you want but thats my reasons for saying I would vote for him if I could.

I just thought it strange to go for a guy for a so few reasons.

Dugganator · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:26

Tefal said:
I just thought it strange to go for a guy for a so few reasons.

Dude once again who are you to question my reasons for it. If you support your football team you have you reasons; regardless if its because of one player or because of the team or where you live within the town of that team. I'm just trying to say simply thats my reasoning after you asked me to explain. I shouldnt then have to provide more answers or reasons.

Tefal · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:28

Duggan said:
Dude once again who are you to question my reasons for it. If you support your football team you have you reasons; regardless if its because of one player or because of team or where you live. I'm just trying to say simply thats my reasoning after you asked me to explain. I shouldnt then have to provide more answers or reasons.

You don't have to, and I'm merely curious. Once again I clearly misunderstand the purpose of a Discussion forum it seems.

Awfully defensive aren't you?

drunkenmaster · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:30

bibalasvegas said:
Again you haven't read the whole article. He disagreed with the passage in the resolution which seemed to open up the possibility of military action with iran so wouldn't have voted for the resolution.

Again, you mistake what i said and take what you mean out of it. I didn't say he didn't oject, i never said anything about him objecting in the first place. I simply said he cosponsered the bill, which he DID, as it says right there on his OWN WEBSITE. the fact that he didn't agree with one passage of the bill is really neither here nor there. As i never said he didn't. What i said, was true, as backed up by fact on his own site, whats the issue?

My intent by stating it in the first place was that Obama feels exactly the same as the others on the Revolutionary guard, they are terrorists, he isn't some guy who will never take military action which seems to be the majority opinion. He won't pull out of Iraq instantly, it will be a couple years, at LEAST, and he's now letting in the possibility of still being there in 4 years into his speaches, a massive backtrack(again listed on his OWN site as things he's said) compared to what he was saying 6 months ago. Each and every single plan he had 6 months ago read like a naive idiots plan to bring about world peace, one by one he's backtracking on every last speech that got him into position as the democratic candidate.

So again, tell me, when its physically impossible to have 25% of the USA's power renewable in some 20 years, why he's spouting it as one of his plans for America that he wants to bring about. Oh wait, another want to be world peace guy makes a load of promises for what he wants to have accomplished 15 years AFTER he leaves office IF he ever gets in and has a full 8 years.

Its fairly easy to promise things that are good for america, that will never happen while he's in power. If you're a gullible twit then maybe, just maybe you want Obama, the naive, backtracking, no plan, won't work with the government man in power.

@home · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:36

It's always nice to debate affairs that are happening worldwide but I think we the citizens of the UK should be more concerned with mess this country is in.

Domestic Fuel prices, Petrol prices, Crime, Mass Immigration, Euro Bureaucracy & a Government so out of touch its frightening.

It sucks we have to suffer 2 more years of this Govnt, but the mainstream alternative partys rarely deliver anything better or any hope.

I know whoever wins, it will have some kind of effect on the UK. They will laugh @ our PM for a start.

I hope the Americans choose the right guy for them & not someone who is gonna worry about the rest of the world before putting the American people first. Like our own Mr Blair did.

Dugganator · 6 Jun 2008 at 12:36

Tefal said:
You don't have to, and I'm merely curious. Once again I clearly misunderstand the purpose of a Discussion forum it seems.

Awfully defensive aren't you?

I'm defensive because really you could have accepted what I said first of all instead of being funny and questioning again once I already answered.It wasnt like I was saying everyone should agree with it was it? You asked me my reasons... I gave reasons and even conserns about Obama and you said that wasnt enough.

I understand that forums are for discussions etc but you seem to be getting at me because of the number of answers I gave you and thats the point that everyone else picked up on. My reasons are my reasons no one elses. Anyway back to the topic....what was it again