That is extremely unlikely to happen, better that than just a corpse. No need to give it to them straight away, but at some point you have to make that decision, I hope most people would try and save them, rather than going sorry gov I can't do anything. Even though I knew the ambulance was 20mins away and it meant certain death for the kid.
Nanny state gone mad
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That is extremely unlikely to happen, better that than just a corpse. No need to give it to them straight away, but at some point you have to make that decision, I hope most people would try and save them, rather than going sorry gov I can't do anything. Even though I knew the ambulance was 20mins away and it meant certain death for the kid.
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As someone had just pointed out your misconception of how the medication works could have ended his life.
How many times would that need to be sent out to ensure it was received and understood by the parents?You can't do that, unless your dead and it’s your organs.
Yeah, wrong on both points
When I did my first aid course this is one of the issues we spoke about. You can't use someone elses medication to treat another person in the case of painkillers etc as far too much can go wrong, however you CAN treat an asthma sufferer with someone elses inhaler.
I was also a health & safety rep I can promise you that anyone who follows H&S down to the letter is a total moron. I know it sounds daft, but it is true. At my old job is was against H&S to open one of the loading bays doors incase one of us fell out while a lorry was backing up. Its a stupid rules for stupid people.
There is no way on earth I could stand there and watch a child struggling to breath just for the sake of giving them 2 puffs on someone elses inhaler. As for cross contamination, what is the worst they could catch? a cold?
I was also a health & safety rep I can promise you that anyone who follows H&S down to the letter is a total moron. I know it sounds daft, but it is true. At my old job is was against H&S to open one of the loading bays doors incase one of us fell out while a lorry was backing up. Its a stupid rules for stupid people.
There is no way on earth I could stand there and watch a child struggling to breath just for the sake of giving them 2 puffs on someone elses inhaler. As for cross contamination, what is the worst they could catch? a cold?
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If that was taught in a FAW course, then they shouldn't be teaching it any more.
I've had FAW for 8 years, advanced first aid and defib / airways management for 3 years, and I've taught both FAW and the lifguard qual (NPLQ) in the past. None of the governing bodies advising on first aid (RLSS / St Johns to name 2) would ever teach that it is ok to use somebody else's inhaler.
And yes, anaphylactic shock is rare, but children dying from asthma attacks is almost unheard of. So I know where I'd take my chances. It's not a recommendation there just to wind people up, it's there for a very good reason.
Caporegime
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IS there no common sense at all anymore(thats not at the quote, just at most of the responses tbh). LItigious culture and PC go hand in hand, before it calmed down somewhat in AMerica half the ridiculous cases that got to caught were based around PC views of things. People being so offended by an remark that in a overly PC society could be seen as bad, that they take it to court to get compensation. ALl those things do go hand in hand. Nanny state where everything is spoon fed to people, people tend to start to expect things all the time, which is why they feel so entitled to sue for any little thing.
AS to this situation, I find it laughable, completely laughable that in the other thread about the man hit by car that recieved no help, that all the anti american crap brought out the fact that America, and lots of other countries have a "good samaritan" law that prevents people from being sued for trying to help and many of those countries or area's of those countries have further laws stating you have to help if needed and possible. THe point is an English member thought it was hilarious and sad that a country would require a law like that, when infact, just for cases like this, a law like that is needed so this kid could have gotten help earlier rather than suffer needlessly.
ANY kid that goes to school has to be signed up, every single parent should have the brains to let the school know of any medications the child requires. A computer on in the nurses office that in 3 seconds would pull up the specific childs medication and dosage and a 12 year old kid could choose the right inhaler to give to him.
Whoever is in charge of the nurses office, a actual nurse, or a teacher that is called in should have the required training in basic first aid aswell as the ability to match inhaler name to a name on a screen and give the kid the help it needs. The whole thing is pathetic, but being scared to help, because of rules is beyond ridiculous frankly.
Also, adverse reaction to medication is far far far less likely than the medication simply not helping. Even without knowing the correct medication or dosage a single small dose inhaler starting from most common to least common would way more often than not save the kid as opposed to harming him, statistically they should have helped. Yes 1 in every 10000 times this happens a kid would die, but what if the ambulance was late, the kid actually did die, and it was inspite of a stupidly low chance some allergic reaction to common medication happened. Ridiculous, also with the amount of nut allergys around these days the injection for stopping an allergic reaction is available in all schools anyway, so again, someone with training should be able to prevent problems from that too.
Regards the OP I would have been a bit concerned to use medication on a child that I know nothing about. I have no idea if those inhalers are specific to the person or general. However I would hope I could have used a bit of common sense that the substance inside the inhalers is unlikely to be harmful to anyone, so worst case scenario is that the random inhaler doesn't help. In the case of allergies, all the carers/teachers should be fully aware of who has them and what they are so this shouldn't be an issue. I really wouldn't have given a second thought to any idiots saying to do nothing for fear of reprisals and would have taken all the steps I thought necessary to try and care for the child.
I've worked in a few different day care type places before and in my experience it can most certainly be done. It's actually two relatively short forms, the first gives consent for the staff to take whatever medical precautions&treatments they see fit in order to best care for the child, the second lists any and all known medical issues. Without the consent we wouldn't look after the child. No one to my knowledge refused the consent and it worked fine. We were able to apply sun cream to them, clean them up after toilet accidents, I even had to rush one to the surgery for stitches when she fell down the stairs and cut her head open!
I imagine the school just doesn't want to take that responsibility. It's less hassle for them to have the blanket rule of not providing any help/care for the children.
I've worked in a few different day care type places before and in my experience it can most certainly be done. It's actually two relatively short forms, the first gives consent for the staff to take whatever medical precautions&treatments they see fit in order to best care for the child, the second lists any and all known medical issues. Without the consent we wouldn't look after the child. No one to my knowledge refused the consent and it worked fine. We were able to apply sun cream to them, clean them up after toilet accidents, I even had to rush one to the surgery for stitches when she fell down the stairs and cut her head open!
I imagine the school just doesn't want to take that responsibility. It's less hassle for them to have the blanket rule of not providing any help/care for the children.
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Soldato
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Both my kids have allergies and they get prescribed the same Epipens. They each get a prescription for two pens.
Their school demands one pen for each child to be kept in the First Aid room and one to be kept in their classroom. Er, how many does that leave for home?
Every child with an Epipen is expected to provide their own pair with their names on them. Every Epipen only lasts six months and then needs to be replaced.
Suppose, just for irony's sake, that the school (and all other schools) were allocated ten Epipens which were then automatically replaced every six months. Would >10 children have anaphylactic shock simultaneously?
Their school demands one pen for each child to be kept in the First Aid room and one to be kept in their classroom. Er, how many does that leave for home?
Every child with an Epipen is expected to provide their own pair with their names on them. Every Epipen only lasts six months and then needs to be replaced.
Suppose, just for irony's sake, that the school (and all other schools) were allocated ten Epipens which were then automatically replaced every six months. Would >10 children have anaphylactic shock simultaneously?
Yes it was a FAW course and it was only last summer. If it also wasn't allowed how come both my doctor and the asthma nurse at my local surgery have both told me that if I am in trouble anytime I CAN use someone elses inhaler? I suffer with it very badly whenever my hayfever is acting up. It is about the only time I do suffer with it however!
Almost unheard of? We have had 3 child related asthma deaths in my local town over the last couple of years along.
I've just been reading up because I wanted to check my thinking with regards to treating an asthma attack and found the following advice;
The website seems to have been produced or is at least certified by the government of Australia. From the sounds of it our schools could learn a lot from them!
http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=243&np=292&id=2215 said:
The website seems to have been produced or is at least certified by the government of Australia. From the sounds of it our schools could learn a lot from them!
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I'm told exactly the same thing.
If I run into trouble I can use anybody's blue inhaler.
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Yes, you can. Because that is your choice and your responsibility. As a first aider / position of responsibility (teacher etc) you shouldn't do it for another person, as you are not qualified to do so. Very simple stuff.
Stop spouting Daily Mail rubbish - to bring such a case to court you'd have to be able to show that you suffered some kind of financial loss. Which based on a single remark, is unlikely. Unless of course that remark was defamatory/libel/slander. Which has nothing to do with Political Correctness.
Nah iirc they can get to court much easier but the cases are just declared frivolous and dissmised then, rather than before, with the filler having to pay usually.
Still going off stuff I've read a long time ago, but they probbably don't let the truly retarded ones you hear on the news anywhere near a judge. Which is why they are always reported as just "filed", I mean i could "file" a suit that the queen stole my man jelly.
Actually as a first aider you are taught that you can use any of the blue 'rescue' inhalers! I know because I've just dug out my red cross hand book and the website I quoted earlier backs it up.
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Associate
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The blue ones aren't always the same dose of salbutamol,
and some inhalers might contain steroids as well. I imagine the risk of allergy or overdose is very small and outweighed by the asthma attack anyway, but i still think the teachers did the right thing. Also, there may be other inhalers with different medication in that are blue, how would the teachers know?
and some inhalers might contain steroids as well. I imagine the risk of allergy or overdose is very small and outweighed by the asthma attack anyway, but i still think the teachers did the right thing. Also, there may be other inhalers with different medication in that are blue, how would the teachers know?
Not the way things are going, parents are taking their kids in with stuipid little things like broken toes, flu, bad stomachs, colds.
It's daft, how can kids built up an immune system when every time they get something wrong with them the parents insist on wasting taxpayers money lunging their kids off to the hospital.
More teachers should join the unions, you get some right scummy parents nowadays who just like to legally rob people for no reason.
My understanding is that while the strength of the blue ones may change(not a problem, I doubt it would be possible to overdose on a single inhaler), the contents stay the same. You're right though in that unless the teachers had been trained in first aid/were asthmatic that they would have no way to know this. I agree that this would be a good reason not to medicate with a mild attack but when someone's is having such a serious attack to the point they're having sever difficulty breathing to not try is dangerous. Especially as chances are you're going to be getting the spare inhaler from someone who is asthmatic so they would know that it's a general one.
Anyway, seeing as the school in question (from the OP) had old emergency inhalers there was obviously a time fairly recently where it was policy to have a spare on hand in the school for occasions such as this. I doubt very much if the policy was changed for medical reasons, I'm pretty sure it's been changed because of idiots putting their needs above the lives of the children they are looking after.
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The hospital is probably the best place to take your children if you want to improve their immune system, where else are you going to be exposed to so many viruses and diseases?
