It works in most governmental systems, you're never gonna please everyone
Irish EU Treaty vote
- Thread starter do_ron_ron
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I think changes to the EU's structure and format should be handled by qualified majority voting. If countries don't like it they can either F.O, or in certain circumstances opt-out of the legislation e.g. Denmark opting out of the Lisbon Human Rights legislation.
Sure, I think you're right but those aren't the current rules, they need to give up and move on otherwise it's just a farce and makes politicians look desperate to bring in something that people don't want. (they appear self serving)
Bring in the legislation for majority voting first, then bring back the Constitution/Treaty.
I'm not sure that when countries are giving away the powers in order to govern themselves that majority voting really works tbh!
Bring in the legislation for majority voting first, then bring back the Constitution/Treaty.
I'm not sure that when countries are giving away the powers in order to govern themselves that majority voting really works tbh!
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Thats not a very good simile.
It would be more liken to "I am English and British" or possibly " I'm British and a Yorkshireman".
the EU is not a sovreign state (and hopefuly never will be)
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QMV is good in some areas, but moving of sovereign power from member countries to the EU is something the national veto should always stay on.
Soldato
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Predictable, boring.
However I thought the Irish had done quite well out of Europe, especially economically.
However I thought the Irish had done quite well out of Europe, especially economically.
prob true, but I guess they are saying they don't want to be part of a superstate, but still part of the EU.
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I'm not against the EU, the old constitution or the new treaty. I just don't really understand them, or what advantages they do / would give me. This is mainly because there is so little effort from the EU in telling people what the point of it is.
I'm also extremely unhappy that the government promised a referrendum on the constitution then performed a spectacular U-turn when it was re-named a 'treaty'. I probably would have voted in favour once I understood it, and the way the gov't went about it was very underhand.
I'm also extremely unhappy that the government promised a referrendum on the constitution then performed a spectacular U-turn when it was re-named a 'treaty'. I probably would have voted in favour once I understood it, and the way the gov't went about it was very underhand.
Soldato
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good show Ireland! and good on their leaders letting them have a choice, shame on you brown you dirty filthy dog!
Free movement ≠ immigration.
Free movement facilitates holidays and temporary residence in EU member states. It does not permit unbridled permanent immigration between EU member states.
Temporary residence is still subject to restrictions and conditions (see here). Permanent residence is regulated under similar guidelines (see the same page).
I'm not entirely sure I understand.
We're going to press on with ratification anyway?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKL1281142820080613
What's the point in ratifying something that required the say so of Ireland?
Also, here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7453839.stm
The fact that anyone is at least even having the thought of 'let's ask the Irish again in a few weeks because they voted the wrong way' sounds just like the elections that ran in Zimbabwe.
The people voted the wrong way there as well, except that country is called a dictatorship.
We're going to press on with ratification anyway?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKL1281142820080613
What's the point in ratifying something that required the say so of Ireland?
Also, here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7453839.stm
The fact that anyone is at least even having the thought of 'let's ask the Irish again in a few weeks because they voted the wrong way' sounds just like the elections that ran in Zimbabwe.
The people voted the wrong way there as well, except that country is called a dictatorship.
Tribalism appears to rear its head again.
Personally, I have no issue with either the EU constitution or the Lisbon treaty. Centralised government in Brussels would mean we lose a significant degree of policy control at a local level, but can any of you honestly say that the past ten years have been local (i.e. national) policy working really well?
Considering the amount of ignorant moaning that goes on in both GD and SC about "why this country sucks" and "FFS!!!11 Why are the Govt. doing this or that?!?" I would have thought a lot of you would have jumped at the idea of essentially getting another government in for essentially free?
What are so many of you afraid of? Loss of sovereignty? I'm going out on a limb here, but I bet very few of you actually take part in public consultations, visit your MP to voice your concerns and perhaps even vote. Loss of economic independence/keep the pound? Membership of a bigger club as such would reduce our national exposure to risk (I appreciate it's slightly more complicated than that, sure). Not being able to set our own foreign policy? Hmmm... we're doing a pretty poor job of keeping our Armed Services safe, so why not be part of a much larger force that can be mobilised more readily than currently (faster decision making)?
I think an EU confederacy has a lot to offer its citizens: from a purely political/economic perspective, the balance of truly global power is undergoing a massive dynamic shift and we - as Europeans - aren't really doing anything to keep up with it.
But hey, whilst I'm a devoted subject of Her Majesty, I consider myself a human citizen - not just British or European, but a member of the world community. But then, I speak French and my skills are in demand around the world and I could move into the Eurozone with very little difficulty, so I feel no threat from the bloc. And I don't have an aluminium keyboard.
Personally, I have no issue with either the EU constitution or the Lisbon treaty. Centralised government in Brussels would mean we lose a significant degree of policy control at a local level, but can any of you honestly say that the past ten years have been local (i.e. national) policy working really well?
Considering the amount of ignorant moaning that goes on in both GD and SC about "why this country sucks" and "FFS!!!11 Why are the Govt. doing this or that?!?" I would have thought a lot of you would have jumped at the idea of essentially getting another government in for essentially free?
What are so many of you afraid of? Loss of sovereignty? I'm going out on a limb here, but I bet very few of you actually take part in public consultations, visit your MP to voice your concerns and perhaps even vote. Loss of economic independence/keep the pound? Membership of a bigger club as such would reduce our national exposure to risk (I appreciate it's slightly more complicated than that, sure). Not being able to set our own foreign policy? Hmmm... we're doing a pretty poor job of keeping our Armed Services safe, so why not be part of a much larger force that can be mobilised more readily than currently (faster decision making)?
I think an EU confederacy has a lot to offer its citizens: from a purely political/economic perspective, the balance of truly global power is undergoing a massive dynamic shift and we - as Europeans - aren't really doing anything to keep up with it.
But hey, whilst I'm a devoted subject of Her Majesty, I consider myself a human citizen - not just British or European, but a member of the world community. But then, I speak French and my skills are in demand around the world and I could move into the Eurozone with very little difficulty, so I feel no threat from the bloc. And I don't have an aluminium keyboard.
Video of results: http://www.********.com/view?i=cfb_1213398022
The majority of people that I spoke to didn't understand the treaty, and I think many people voted No because of that.
I spent a good deal of time reading up on it but it still left me confused. Are there any polls on public opinion for all the other States?
The majority of people that I spoke to didn't understand the treaty, and I think many people voted No because of that.
I spent a good deal of time reading up on it but it still left me confused. Are there any polls on public opinion for all the other States?
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Well done Ireland. This is the real reason most member countries of the EU dare not ask their electorate to vote on this treaty.
Take the hint EU. Go back to the original idea of a free trade agreement and forget the idea of a European supersate. It's neither wanted or needed.
Take the hint EU. Go back to the original idea of a free trade agreement and forget the idea of a European supersate. It's neither wanted or needed.
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^ This.
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A founding country and major player in the EU holds a referendum for a constitution and has its people reject it.
One of the poorest nations in the EU becomes the second wealthiest with its help (per capita - and in no small part due to the monies handed out to them by the EU) and they stall the entire agreement all over again.
I could not believe the audacity of the French minister that said "Ireland owed it to the EU to vote yes" when its own people voted no three years earlier
One of the poorest nations in the EU becomes the second wealthiest with its help (per capita - and in no small part due to the monies handed out to them by the EU) and they stall the entire agreement all over again.
I could not believe the audacity of the French minister that said "Ireland owed it to the EU to vote yes" when its own people voted no three years earlier
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I drank my first ever pint of Guiness today to honour the people of Ireland. They had the balls to say 'p off you b'trd commies' and voted no.
The irony of all of the pro EU waffle heads is that they are advocating socialist tyranny.
I read the EU constitution in Spanish and was shocked at some of the things I found that we were having to agree with
So EU (puppets) supporters, if this is such a wondrous and spectacular thing for us why did ONE out of TWENTY SEVEN states representing 490MILLION people get a vote???
Explain this. I dare you. Anyone who actively pursues a (communist USSR) EU line is a traitor and should be tried for treason. You people are a disgrace to your country and I can recommend some excellent GD emigration threads for you.
France, Holland and now Ireland have my eternal gratitude for standing up for democracy (challenge me I dare you communists, because you of all people know that the populace deserve and indeed are owed a vote on such matters)
/salute
The irony of all of the pro EU waffle heads is that they are advocating socialist tyranny.
I read the EU constitution in Spanish and was shocked at some of the things I found that we were having to agree with
So EU (puppets) supporters, if this is such a wondrous and spectacular thing for us why did ONE out of TWENTY SEVEN states representing 490MILLION people get a vote???
Explain this. I dare you. Anyone who actively pursues a (communist USSR) EU line is a traitor and should be tried for treason. You people are a disgrace to your country and I can recommend some excellent GD emigration threads for you.
France, Holland and now Ireland have my eternal gratitude for standing up for democracy (challenge me I dare you communists, because you of all people know that the populace deserve and indeed are owed a vote on such matters)
/salute