The government and motors

Soldato
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I seem to remember it was mentioned on here that the EU were going to implement legislation outlawing the production of cars which weren't fuel efficient. At first I thought this was outrageous, but come to think of it, is this the only way of tackling congestion/pollution and environmental damage.

The problem with Labour is they tackle everything with taxes. Taxes don't work. A substantial value of tax added on performance cars is not going to deter the rich from purchasing them, if anything it hits the poor which is completely unfair.
Other policies might include price discrimination (via petrol) on cars with different tax bands, but once again that wouldn't work.
Perhaps they could limit the amount of petrol consumers can purchase, but once again that isn't realistic as many NEED petrol to get to work.

So what do they do?

My problem personally lies with people who have high performance cars but don't use them to their potential. There's an independent prep school down the road from me, and the amount of Range Rover Sports, Porsche Cayenne Turbos, X5s etc is sickening. The fact remains that I could jump in my mum's 1.4 Golf and cruise at 90mph all the way to Newcastle on one tank. On the other hand, someone driving a Range Rover Sport at 70mph all the way would have to fill up at least once during the trip.

It seems to me we have a section of motor enthusiasts, and a section of people who drive fast cars purely for show and never actually use the power of their car. They drive along using about 5% of their cars potential and polluting the environment about 500% more than the rest of us. I mean, is there ANYTHING that can be done about this other than what the EU are proposing? You'd still have luxury cars and extremely luxury cars, just with more efficient engines fitted. The problem is it's COMPLETELY unfair to target these people when there are people like the users of this forum who have a passion for motors.

Am I being pathetic and silly, or does anyone agree with me. I personally think the government should be tackling this school-run-mum obsession with pathetically fuel inefficient 4X4s. If the technology was in place that allowed them to be fuel efficient when not being ragged then fine, but this isn't the case.

In the future, as supplies of petrol run low - what the hell is going to happen?


The main issue is, we have a conflict between people who are passionate about motors and people who use them purely as a function, a machine that gets you from A to B. You can't deal with the latter without upsetting the former.
 
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I totally agree. I was outside a private school today. Kings in Tynemouth is anyone knows it. And i was amazed at the amount of Q7's, RR's, X5' and such. I mean come on. I was stuck behind one of those volvo jeeps...and it didnt even have a tow bar!!. I mean come on, you buy a jeep to tow things atleast.
 
At first I thought this was outrageous, but come to think of it, is this the only way of tackling congestion/pollution and environmental damage.

Your problem lies here. Very few people believe that their car contributes to climate change.

Whether it does or doesn't is far too complicated for me to know but just wait for everyone to tell you there is no such thing. They should know because they own cars and therefore they are the experts.
 
I don't think anyone think their car doesn't pollute it's the argument over how massively disproportionate the motorist is 'hit' with taxes compared to other much larger pollution sources that get away scot free..
 
I wonder who creates more pollution daily, me as a car enthusiast or some of the other people in this thread wanting to restrict our rights to purchase and use what we want...
 
I'm totally in favour of charging large taxes on Cayennes of this world. Bring it on. However the proposed bands don't acheive this. My uncle's Volvo S60 D5 which does 55 to the gallon is in one of the more expensive tax bands. My friend's X type jag which does 30 to the gallon is in the £400 band i think.

This is totally wrong. Cars should be taxed on consumption not just emissions with a sliding scale. IE good or better than average fuel consumption can offset slightly poorer emissions but if you have a gas guzzler that puts out enormous amounts of CO2 (I know it's a red herring but the government don't seem to want to change their minds on it) then you get slaughtered on the tax.

I don't think speed has a lot to do with it. People who want to go fast get 911s not Cayennes. People do need bigger cars for moving the family around, shopping etc and taxing a large family car until it's borderline unaffordable unless you have the model that couldn't pull you out of bed is unfair.
 
The problem I have with it, is the fact that if people want to buy expensive 4x4s like Q7s, Range Rovers etc, and they can afford them, then fine - its their cash, let them spend it.

Its highly likley that the money they earn to afford them gets taxed highly anyway, and if they burn more fuel than the average car - again more tax and duty.

My biggest gripe, is that there is still a hell of a lot of debate going on in the scientific community, as to whether cars are actually affecting the climate.
Even so tax gets slapped on despite no one actually being able to verify 100% that it is causing problems.
 
I'm totally in favour of charging large taxes on Cayennes of this world. Bring it on. However the proposed bands don't acheive this. My uncle's Volvo S60 D5 which does 55 to the gallon is in one of the more expensive tax bands. My friend's X type jag which does 30 to the gallon is in the £400 band i think.

This is totally wrong. Cars should be taxed on consumption not just emissions with a sliding scale. IE good or better than average fuel consumption can offset slightly poorer emissions but if you have a gas guzzler that puts out enormous amounts of CO2 (I know it's a red herring but the government don't seem to want to change their minds on it) then you get slaughtered on the tax.

I don't think speed has a lot to do with it. People who want to go fast get 911s not Cayennes. People do need bigger cars for moving the family around, shopping etc and taxing a large family car until it's borderline unaffordable unless you have the model that couldn't pull you out of bed is unfair.

Emissions and consumption are largely linked though...

As for not wanting to tax some cars but taxing other types, who are you to say what is and isn't unnecessary?

What makes your (or indeed the state's) opinion more valuable than someone elses?

What gives you the right to try and dictate the choices of others?
 
I wonder who creates more pollution daily, me as a car enthusiast or some of the other people in this thread wanting to restrict our rights to purchase and use what we want...

Which it typical of this selfish society. Indeed there is debate as to whether cars actually cause environmental damage but the current research is pointing towards the fact that they do. That's still irrelevant given the fact fuel supplies are running out. As mentioned above, if you want to go fast you buy a sports car. If you want to carry lots of passengers or luggage then you buy a 4X4 but you don't need a 4X4 that does 0-60 in the same time as a super car and has a top speed of 170mph. What's the point?

The average super rich house wife who wants a 4X4 will walk in to a garage and buy the most expensive 4X4. She probably doesn't care a bit about fuel economy, only that she is getting 'the best' one available. EU proposals would mean that she'd still have the 'best' model, only it would be more fuel efficient. It seems to me it's all about image.
 
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Abolish road tax, and completely tax fuel. You use it, you pay for it.

It does seem fair to me. The more fuel efficient your car is, the less you pay on fuel. The fact is, if they did this, fuel prices would have to increase even more.

That's not how the British tax system works anyway. You're taxed at EVERY stage of whatever it involves :mad:
 
Emissions and consumption are largely linked though...

Yes they are to a point but my Uncles 55 to the gallon Volvo ends up in the same bracket as a V6 Mondeo that does 20MPG.

As for not wanting to tax some cars but taxing other types, who are you to say what is and isn't unnecessary?

What makes your (or indeed the state's) opinion more valuable than someone elses?

What gives you the right to try and dictate the choices of others?

The fact that fuel is in finite supply, the fact we all breathe the same air and quite frankly the fact that if you can afford the car and the fuel you can afford to tax it too :) Car manufacturers don't charge the same price for all models because they cost differant amounts to make. This is logical.

A Porsche Cayenne is heavier and therefore causes more wear to the road than an average Mondeo, uses twice the amount of fuel and puts out more pollutants. Since road tax was/is intended to maintain the roads it is logical that a heavier and more damaging car should be taxed more. If we are also going to use road tax as a green tax more polluting cars should pay more and cars that use more fuel should pay more.

Abolish road tax, and completely tax fuel. You use it, you pay for it.

I'd go for that too, but it aint going to happen.
 
Abolish road tax, and completely tax fuel. You use it, you pay for it.

Whilst I agree this is fair for most people, there are people who would be hit very hard if this came into effect.

People like taxi drivers and hauliers would be spending a fortune (they are as it is).
 
Am I being pathetic and silly, or does anyone agree with me. I personally think the government should be tackling this school-run-mum obsession with pathetically fuel inefficient 4X4s. If the technology was in place that allowed them to be fuel efficient when not being ragged then fine, but this isn't the case.

I think you need to do your homework and stop reading what the Goverment has to say on the matter - I mean jeeze there has been enough threads on the real deal when it comes to what is causing global warming.

I also see markyp23 is of the same view, and I know you've read them.
 
Whilst I agree this is fair for most people, there are people who would be hit very hard if this came into effect.

People like taxi drivers and hauliers would be spending a fortune (they are as it is).

But they along with reps use the road the most causing the most wear and tear to it, it makes great sense but it would be total suicide to actually implement it.
 
I think you need to do your homework and stop reading what the Goverment has to say on the matter - I mean jeeze there has been enough threads on the real deal when it comes to what is causing global warming.

I also see markyp23 is of the same view, and I know you've read them.

Environmental damage and pollution is not the issue.

The fact is petrol is a finite resource that is running out.
 
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