2008 French Grand Prix - Race 8/17
- Thread starter rpstewart
- Start date
In that case it is his responsibility to get himself out of Honda and into a car that is suited to his ability. The problem is that the guy is just making up the numbers. I have no doubt that he has great natural ability, but he just doesnt have the commitment anymore to totally dedicate his life to F1 (something that MS did and Hamilton seems to be doing now).
It all comes down to ambition and if he truly believed in his own ability he wouldve changed teams. Even last year when the McLaren seat became available - he couldve jumped at the chance and made things happen. He didnt because he knew that if he got blown away this year by Hamilton, which wouldve been likely, his reputation as a top driver wouldve been finished.
Anyway, enough driver bashing. So whose going to win tomorrow's race?
After Honda began to mess up, I'm sure if Button really wanted out, he wouldve got out. I think he has just got comfortable picking up his pay cheque and just happy to finish in the middle/back of the pack and have a guaranteed seat in F1. If he moved to McLaren, the pressure would be immense. His ego could take a serious battering at the hands of Hamilton.
Just look on this forum. So many Button fans/admirers, who swore blind before 2008, that he was one of the smoothest drivers in F1 and that the removal of driver aids would see him move forward. Well, we are in the middle of 2008 and he is barely qualifying ahead of Barrichello (the same guy who was routinely getting blown away by MS), near the back of the grid.
Anyway, once again I find myself bashing Button/Heikki, which I dont particularly enjoy doing. Back to the race.
Does anyone have any predictions for today's race?
Just look on this forum. So many Button fans/admirers, who swore blind before 2008, that he was one of the smoothest drivers in F1 and that the removal of driver aids would see him move forward. Well, we are in the middle of 2008 and he is barely qualifying ahead of Barrichello (the same guy who was routinely getting blown away by MS), near the back of the grid.
Anyway, once again I find myself bashing Button/Heikki, which I dont particularly enjoy doing. Back to the race.
Does anyone have any predictions for today's race?
But you seem so good at it....it's hard to believe that you don't enjoy it just a little bit.
Ferrari 1-2, not sure which one to win yet. Hopefully Massa. Kubica 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Heikki's car will break, so will Piquet's.
CS||nuTs said:
Actually, I'd rather they opened up the rulebook considerably (Lord knows how many times I have to state that before someone takes it on-board). I just don't see what re-fuelling adds to F1 - other than the possibility of fire and the chance that the race winner won't necessarily be the quickest/best car and driver combo, just the one who got his fuel strategy right. Fine if it's an exceptional race - Moss running non-stop that time in Argentina springs to mind. Lap after lap, Ferrari were sure he had to come in....Moss always did love sticking it to them. Rather more recently - 2004's French GP was a good example of how even a fuel strategy win can be an exciting one, Schumacher 4-stopping when they saw that Alonso might have had the quicker car on the day and going for the win rather than settling for 2nd.
But when nothing happens among the front runners on-track, and the win is set by race strategies that these days are determined in qualifying....
Yep he runs a few triathlons a year just for the fun of it...
They set near identical times all throughout the weekend. Doesn't that normally indicate they both easily got the most out of a rubbish car..?
I hope it's a wet raceEven a damp race will be better than the normal Magny Bore procession...
Can we have a thunderstorm please. But not a red flag race.
No. Not at all. All I would like is a refocus from aerodynamic grip to mechanical grip as being the primary means to achieve traction. You have assumed that this means a reduction in technology. You are wrong.
Wrong again. Current tyres (designed to work in a high-aero environment) would suffer only slight graining in a low-downforce environment (NOT a zero-dowforce environment). Tyre technology is incredibly convuluted and manufacturers can easily produce a high-grip slick that will work in a low-downforce environment. Hell, they could make them last a full race distance if they needed to.
May I suggest a little self-education on the subject? While I never profess to be an expert, I find it fascinating stuff so I try to learn as much as I can. Perhaps the initial stumbling block that you may have is that you think along the lines of 'front wing gives downforce at the front, rear wing gives downforce at the rear.' A little reading would teach you otherwise
Yes...
Again, once you understand the nuances of design, you will realise that even the front wing has an effect on 'rear downforce'Do you seriously think removal of the rear wing will result in the same car layout??? Erm nope! To counteract the zero downforce at the rear they'd have to push the engine much further back, like a Porsche. At least that is one way. The side pods might get moved back too. Who knows what crazy solutions they would come up with. But for absolute certain the standard formula car layout would not remain in the sport for much longer.
Where is this point? Or is this merely more conjecture on your part...? More assumption too. I never said that I wanted to 'bunch the cars up', merely that I wanted them to be able to follow each other more closely. If the cars are able to follow each other without a sudden and massive drop in grip (as is the case now) then they will be able to overtake more readily and at more places on the track than just at hairpins at the end of long straights and in the pits. When was the last time we saw a really good to-and-fro battle on the track?
I am completely sincere; I have to ask the same of you...
*n
With regards to having to make the races shorter, rubbsih as they are the same distance now as they were in the early 90s, yes they had bigger fuel tanks, but i think banning fuel stops would be a good idea, and would force the teams/engine manufacturers make more efficient cars.
Next year they are making the rear wings a lot smaller and so the cars need to produce more mechanical grip due to the lack of aerodynamic grip.
They brought in refuelling to make the racing more exciting and have more overtaking however imo it has done nothing to improve this and races are decided on fuel strategy as opposed to actually overtaking someone on the track.
I am glad they are bringing back the full slicks next season though
God dammit, its gonna rain and im gonna miss a blinder arent i?!?!?!
I'm going out for a meal at 12, I'm going to miss it too
Tyre and aerodynamics are both about as good as they will get. They're just squeezing the last few % out of them.
What we need is a huge relaxation in the rules to allow teams to Delport cars in totally new and unique ways. F1 is about being the top of technology. Sadly it isn't especially with this stupid engine rule.
What we need is a huge relaxation in the rules to allow teams to Delport cars in totally new and unique ways. F1 is about being the top of technology. Sadly it isn't especially with this stupid engine rule.
Soldato
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God dammit, its gonna rain and im gonna miss a blinder arent i?!?!?!
This is Magny Cours. The rain will be boring.
And no matter how many times Steve Rider says this is last Grand Prix here, he's just a big tease. We'll be back.
I'm not saying he just turns up to race weekends and all the other times he is in the pub. He does have to work for his money. But his level of commitment is not as high as say Michael Schumacher, who looked at all angles. He even got married before he won his first world title, in 1994. I think he wanted his personal life to be as stable as possible so he could dedicate his future years to F1. And its a strategy that worked.
At McLaren, alongside Hamilton, say, his level of commitment would have to be EXTREMELY high, or he will get pushed by the wayside (like what is happening to Heikki). Heikki is just starting out so he can afford to be blown away by Hamilton. Button, cannot afford to be as he is an established driver with a decent reputation. It'll hurt him.
Before the year began, the Button lovers were claiming he would move ahead, in comparison to the other drivers, due to his alleged smooth driving. The fact that his lap times are usually around the same as Barrichello's (the guy who was blown away by MS, at Ferrari), would indicate that Button is an average driver - not great, not crap, just average.
But anyway, you are drawing me into driver bashing and I want to stear clear that.
I also predicted that removing driver aids wont really make much difference to the racing itself. The cars/drivers that were fast in 2007, will also be quick in 2008. Apart from BMW, this has been correct, although, I would argue that had driver aids remained, BMW would have improved anyway. But we will never know. Driver aids do make it tougher for drivers, but it effects ALL drivers, so it levels the playing field. I cant think of any driver, this year, who is proving to be outstanding in comparison to 2007, except for Kubica, though he has stated this is due to him getting used to the tyres and adapting his driving style.
With regards to re-fuelling: it was brought in to make racing more exciting. Without re-fuelling and different re-fuelling strategies, the guy who was on pole would have a good chance of winning the race as he was the fastest driver. By adding re-fuelling, the FIA felt that the fastest drivers wont necessarily qualify on pole and overtaking would occur during the race. The problem that we all know of now, is that the overtaking occurs in the pit-lane and not on the track.
I say, keep re-fuelling as it adds another variable which could make the race less predictable. Hell, Ive even heard that some drivers go into the pits, in the lead, get refuelled, come out behind their main rival and end up crashing head long into them. How's that for unpredictability?
I will stick my neck out and say a Ferrari wont do a 1-2. I think something will happen to one of them. Hamilton should make this race exciting. As he is far back on the grid, he has nothing to lose by going really really fast. Lets hope Kubica can try and attack the Ferraris.