For sure, For sure, For sure, For sure, For sure, For sure, For sure.
2008 Hungarian GP - Race 11/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
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Soldato
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Well packagedHe's been hinting at that for a while but that's the first time he's just came out and said it without twisting it and keeping it vague
I think he got what he wanted last season, this year might be more about cash and the like ?
He's been hinting at that for a while but that's the first time he's just came out and said it without twisting it and keeping it vague
Well alonso released a statement recently which was pretty much one big dig at mclaren and i doubt that went down well.
Soldato
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I think he's fallen out of love with the game tbh, seems to be going through the motions now till he packs up.
Wicksta - Alt+0153 for the ™ sign. Looks better than [tm]
Pretty fine performance from the McLarens then. Unless Massa is fuelled so heavily that he makes a stop less than the pair of them AND we get no safety car AND he can drive it right on the limit of the laws of physics despite a heavy fuel load then it's surely a McLaren win. As to which one....got to be Hamilton. Heikki, I'm sure, will have been warned off fighting him at Turn One. Can you imagine what would happen if they took each other off??
Really, y'all have got to think Hamilton is favourite for this one. I know there are many things that can go wrong 'tween lights and flag, but if Hamilton doesn't win tomorrow.....well, it'll be a shock to me, certainly. And I reckon we could power the UK for at least six seconds off the anger and frustration of the ITV F1 crew if that actually happened!
Steve Rider was talking about qualifying to Ron Dennis and he said "And there we see Heikki Kovalainen, Lewis Hamilton's support driver, in 2nd place, he should allow Lewis to run off and win by holding off the others" to which Ron Dennis said "Can I just say Heikki is not a support driver, he's here to win."
God dam I hate ITV sometimes
God dam I hate ITV sometimes
Bit harsh. I thought it was more of a case of bad luck for Heidfeld. He shouldn't have left it so late to do a proper lap.
Incorrect.
It was written that he was the No.1 driver and that the other guy would support his cause as well as the team's. What this means, as I stated earlier, is that in qualifying both drivers go as quick as they can. If Irvine gets pole, then great. If MS gets pole, then even better. If the No.2 driver were to say lift off and go slow in qualifying, then it would be stupid if MS didnt get pole. Lifting off in qualifying would be totally stupid and virtually no driver would do this as its too risky. The same applies to practise sessions.
During the race, both drivers were expected to drive their hardest, however, if ever there would arrive a situation where MS was directly behind the No.2 driver, then the No.2 driver would move over and let MS take the lion's share of the points. This makes sense as MS doesnt want his own team mate to take away points from him.
Now what was happening with MS is generally, his team mate would hardly ever finish directly behind him. In fact, on many occassions MS would lap his team mate. Being lapped by MS was 100% not written into anybody's contract. MS did this using speed, alone. Similarly, when MS would out qualify his team mate, he did this on merit. Once again, no competitive driver would lift off in qualifying as it would be very dangerous to do so. It is Ferrari's and Bennetton's best interest to have MS's team mate qualify alongside him, so that he can protect his team leader.
Now during "that" race, when Barrichello pulled over to let MS through on the last lap, MS was right behind Barrichello, in exactly the scenario that I described above and therefore conceded to his team leader.
There were very few races where MS's team mate finished right behind him, hence, MS beat his team mate on merit alone.
Lets go through his team mates:
1. Martin Brundle - a decent driver. Definitely not slow by any means.
2. JJ Lehto - Had a massive reputation, before he was demolished by MS.
3. Jos Verstappen - A young upstart, who was thought to have the ability to compete against MS. He got demolished.
4. Eddie Irvine - He was no slouch. Even Senna acknowledged that Irvine was fast, before he punched him. He even finished 2pts from the WDC summit in 1999, but didnt quite have the speed required. MS was able to run rings around Irvine.
5. Jonny Herbert - Many people felt that he was going to be Britains next World Champion. Instead it was Hill. Once again, he arrived with a lot of experience and exptected to compete with MS, to win the constructors title for Bennetton. He got demolished, though he did win 2 races, after Hill and MS took eachother out in 1995.
6. Rubens Barrichello - he was a solid team mate and brought in to be the No.2 driver and win the constructors title. He was consistently outpaced by MS, but not comprehensively demolished. It would appear that Barrichello is only slightly slower than Button. MS made Barrichello look ordinary.
7. Phillipe Massa - brought in as a No.2 driver. Once again MS was quicker than Massa, without too many problems. No way was Massa holding back. He was going as quick as he could, but didnt have the speed to beat MS.
True. But he dominated every team mate he had. He cant really do more than that. He turned Ferrari from a team that hadnt won the WDC since 1979, into one that won in in 2000 and was able to dominate. In my lifetime this sort of strategy has never been done. In general, a top driver would only move to a top performing team.
To do what MS did and move to Ferrari, from a championship winning team, required huge commitment, the likes of which we hadnt seen in a long time.
I remember that one race you are talking about, but I dont remember any other. Can you give me some specific races where this happened?
All his all doing imo, if 10 drivers are going out in the last few minutes this is bound to happen to someone
Regarding Bourdais/Heidfeld....
I don't recall all that many grid penalties for "blocking" when it was a 12 laps each, 1 hour shoot-out. Yet this last couple of years, we've had penalties all over the damned shop.
I forget which year it was (think it was '90), at one race Mansell got horrendously baulked by Grouillard. It almost had to be deliberate, it was that bad. And yet they didn't go ahead and demote Grouillard, or fine him, or ban him, or sanction him in any way. It was just one of those things.
Remind me again....why did we get rid of that qualifying setup?
Oh yes. The viewers. They didn't like the fact that no-one came out at the start of the session. But has the dicking about since honestly been worth it? And really, was it that irritating that only the lower-order teams used to bimble out early on in the session(s)?
Bring back Fri and Sat qually (Thur and Sat for Monaco, obviously) IMO. No qualifying on race fuel - stupid rule anyway, it effectively forces the teams to show their hand before the race even starts. Set number of laps each day (for the sake of argument, 12), 1 hour to do them in, and a complete free-for-all. Pole winner is the guy who got the fastest laptime overall.
Like it should be.
I don't recall all that many grid penalties for "blocking" when it was a 12 laps each, 1 hour shoot-out. Yet this last couple of years, we've had penalties all over the damned shop.
I forget which year it was (think it was '90), at one race Mansell got horrendously baulked by Grouillard. It almost had to be deliberate, it was that bad. And yet they didn't go ahead and demote Grouillard, or fine him, or ban him, or sanction him in any way. It was just one of those things.
Remind me again....why did we get rid of that qualifying setup?
Oh yes. The viewers. They didn't like the fact that no-one came out at the start of the session. But has the dicking about since honestly been worth it? And really, was it that irritating that only the lower-order teams used to bimble out early on in the session(s)?
Bring back Fri and Sat qually (Thur and Sat for Monaco, obviously) IMO. No qualifying on race fuel - stupid rule anyway, it effectively forces the teams to show their hand before the race even starts. Set number of laps each day (for the sake of argument, 12), 1 hour to do them in, and a complete free-for-all. Pole winner is the guy who got the fastest laptime overall.
Like it should be.
Wholeheartedly agree that Heidfeld had no case against Bourdais and that BMW need to sort out their qualifying so as not to bet everything on the last few minutes all the time.
Also, on the subject of BMW, is anyone else getting slightly annoyed with Kubica? A great talent he may be but he's starting to get a bit too big for his boots I think. After his win we had him publicly calling for BMW to "get behind his title bid" despite Theissen previously stating, quite correctly in my view, that they were not chasing the title this year and also had to balance their development of this years car with that of next year's.
I don't know if it's just me but since then I've noticed Kubica seems to always be a bit critical of BMW when interviewed. A few little comments here and there to give the impression he's being "let down" by his machinery, despite BMW putting in an awesome showing this year. I think his win has gone to his head tbh and he's getting ahead of himself.
Also, on the subject of BMW, is anyone else getting slightly annoyed with Kubica? A great talent he may be but he's starting to get a bit too big for his boots I think. After his win we had him publicly calling for BMW to "get behind his title bid" despite Theissen previously stating, quite correctly in my view, that they were not chasing the title this year and also had to balance their development of this years car with that of next year's.
I don't know if it's just me but since then I've noticed Kubica seems to always be a bit critical of BMW when interviewed. A few little comments here and there to give the impression he's being "let down" by his machinery, despite BMW putting in an awesome showing this year. I think his win has gone to his head tbh and he's getting ahead of himself.
Not sure.. I think Kubica is getting frustrated. He wants to be in the best car. I don't think Kubica ever had a title bid. All of BMW's success this season has been as a result of other teams faltering. Canada they got a 1+2 because the two leading cars DNF'd. Heidfeld did well to score in Silverstone but again it was more about keeping it on the track than being better than anyone.
Most drivers don't like blatently talking down their team but most will find ways to express their feelings in subtle ways. In the early season Hamilton made it known to the press that he wanted McLaren to develop the car as it wasn't beating Ferrari. Alonso too is quick to blame his equipment.
Most drivers don't like blatently talking down their team but most will find ways to express their feelings in subtle ways. In the early season Hamilton made it known to the press that he wanted McLaren to develop the car as it wasn't beating Ferrari. Alonso too is quick to blame his equipment.
I don't doubt Kubica wants to be in the best car, they all do, but IMHO he should be showing a bit more loyalty and gratitude to the team that's made him a star and given him his first win. Let's not forget that his career is still very young and there's plenty of time - I think he should be calming himself and looking to stick with BMW for the long run as I think they'll definitely offer him a good chance of a title in the future.
I think the Hamilton factor is at work a bit here, in that he's almost redefined what can (and perhaps will) be expected of a rookie in F1. I think his stellar performance last year (yes I know he had a good car but that only gets you so far) will have made it harder for every rookie that follows him into the sport.
I think the Hamilton factor is at work a bit here, in that he's almost redefined what can (and perhaps will) be expected of a rookie in F1. I think his stellar performance last year (yes I know he had a good car but that only gets you so far) will have made it harder for every rookie that follows him into the sport.
He's been hinting at that for a while but that's the first time he's just came out and said it without twisting it and keeping it vague
hahahaha - fair enough, hadnt seen/ heard him refer to it
They do just the same with MS and Alonso - whats the point?
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You have completely twisted every single point - there is no point at all in discussing this
It is FACT that MS had it written in his contract that he would not have any competition within the team he was driving for (maybe excepting Jordan)
Seeing as the Ferrari (where he was for the majority of his career) was one of the best cars on the grid for 90% of the time he was there (baring 96 I dont think its even much to argue about this) it was only EVER going to be his team mate that was his major competition - and with no points for qualifying, if you thought Alonso was "dispirited" at McLaren last year - just imagine how crap all his team mates must have felt NEVER being able to race equally with their team mate
Barichello and Irvine where in plenty of situations where they HAD to allow MS though in races where Ferrari had 1-2's at the end
IF MS had bothered to even consider having an equal team mate in a team that wasnt wholly geared around "God Almighty" and hadnt tried to win two championships by ramming competitors off the track - like you I might be ready to kiss his ***, but sorry I look a little deaper and dont respect his constant .......stretching of the rules
so is anyone going to talk about the race or has this completly been turned into a MS ferari argument ?
predictions for the race anyone?
i have a fealing that glock, although he did well in qualifying will drop back maybe 3 or 4 places by the first corner.
i also think kovi will have a go at hamilton in the first corner but wont get past then hamilton will lead the whole way and pick up an easy win.
kimi will work up to a podium i think, he normaly does well in at damage limitation.
i would really like glock to get up to the podium if he can or atleast finish were he started in 5th.
oh and coulthard to collide with button.
predictions for the race anyone?
i have a fealing that glock, although he did well in qualifying will drop back maybe 3 or 4 places by the first corner.
i also think kovi will have a go at hamilton in the first corner but wont get past then hamilton will lead the whole way and pick up an easy win.
kimi will work up to a podium i think, he normaly does well in at damage limitation.
i would really like glock to get up to the podium if he can or atleast finish were he started in 5th.
oh and coulthard to collide with button.
Frank, if it was that easy to make any puppet a world champ, 7 times over, then all the teams would be doing it. Why do you think they cant?
Instead, you have McLaren, who now, probably have the best car and have decided to give their full backing to Hamilton, whilst having Heikki as the No.2. Of course, they will never admit it, but its obvious. In fact, it would be stupid for them not to follow that strategy. Hamilton is actually in a very similar situation now, that MS was in - in that Heikki will never try and obstruct Hamilton, as Heikki's job is to support Hamilton (despite what Denis says) and to score as many points as possible to help with the constructors title. Ideally, McLaren want a 1-2, unfortunately, Heikki isnt good enough to deliver on that, just like MS was good enough to win, but his team mate (in what you say was the best car), was unable to finish in 2nd, 90% of the time.
MS redefined the way in which you win titles. Hamilton can follow in his footsteps, but it would take incredible courage to walk away from McLaren (the best car) and move to a team like, Toyota, say and make them World Champions (which is what MS effectively did when he walked away from Bennetton and moved to Ferrari).
Apart from 1 race, I cant think of any other where MS's team mate moved over to let him take a race win. I see that you were also unable to mention any specific races where this happened.
Instead, you have McLaren, who now, probably have the best car and have decided to give their full backing to Hamilton, whilst having Heikki as the No.2. Of course, they will never admit it, but its obvious. In fact, it would be stupid for them not to follow that strategy. Hamilton is actually in a very similar situation now, that MS was in - in that Heikki will never try and obstruct Hamilton, as Heikki's job is to support Hamilton (despite what Denis says) and to score as many points as possible to help with the constructors title. Ideally, McLaren want a 1-2, unfortunately, Heikki isnt good enough to deliver on that, just like MS was good enough to win, but his team mate (in what you say was the best car), was unable to finish in 2nd, 90% of the time.
MS redefined the way in which you win titles. Hamilton can follow in his footsteps, but it would take incredible courage to walk away from McLaren (the best car) and move to a team like, Toyota, say and make them World Champions (which is what MS effectively did when he walked away from Bennetton and moved to Ferrari).
Apart from 1 race, I cant think of any other where MS's team mate moved over to let him take a race win. I see that you were also unable to mention any specific races where this happened.
Did he also have it written into his contract that he must lap his team mate and qualify 0.5-1.0s/lap ahead of his team mate?