Vaughan resigns as England captain

ringo747 · 3 Aug 2008 at 13:30

Maybe we can start a new thread on this... very shocked to read about this just now and see the news conference. Really don't think KP should be captain. He needs to concentrate on batting. Maybe give strauss a go?

ringo747 · 3 Aug 2008 at 13:35

And just reading that Colly has resigned as one day captain! What is happening!

ringo747 · 3 Aug 2008 at 13:42

O yeah I keep forgetting about the ban. Makes sense I suppose. I think Fred should be captain. KP should just be no3 batsman. Im in shock really. Its a sad day to see Vaughany go. It was only around the time of his big ton in the ashes that I got into cricket. End of an era really.

Big Kev · 3 Aug 2008 at 13:45

Sad to see Vaughan step down, but his performances just haven't been good enough.

I don't want Freddie to be captain, he has enough on his plate with batting, bowling and coping with injuries.

ringo747 · 3 Aug 2008 at 13:46

Big Kev said:
Sad to see Vaughan step down, but his performances just haven't been good enough.

I don't want Freddie to be captain, he has enough on his plate with batting, bowling and coping with injuries.

Yeah I don't think Fred would get a chance anyways after his previous antics in the past. I still think he would be a better option than KP though.

JAzz · 3 Aug 2008 at 14:47

Is a very good captain and I don't think the major changes in the squad have helped him in recent years. Like other good players though his batting has been badly effected so best for him to step down. Happened with Dravid as well where his batting just got worse and worse so to save his own behind he had to step down. Though in some cased (mainly Australian funnily enough) it seems to bring the best out of them like it has with Ponting and Waugh before him.

Best not to give it to your best bowler/batsman. Think someone like Collingwood, Cook or Strauss should be considered instead of Pietersen whose own form has been patchy in recent times.

Greenlizard0 · 3 Aug 2008 at 14:53

Like I say in the other thread I don't think the right choice is KP. He's such a talented player and I rate him to bits. However the amount of gip that the guy was given when he first stepped up and even now I don't think he gets the respect he deserves simply because he's not "English born and bred". It almost explains why a few news articles have said that he pretty much plays for himself only, that I completely understand.

This decision almost smacks of desperation really. I wish him the best of luck, and hope that the captains' curse doesn't knock him down.

He's also a very quiet man, who I feel compared to Vaughn lacks the expertise to rile players up and set the field. Freddie might have been a character, but I can imagine him being excellent in the dressing room.

Ben M · 3 Aug 2008 at 15:03

ringo747 said:
very shocked to read about this

Why does it shock you? :confused:

Psycho Ned · 3 Aug 2008 at 15:32

I mentioned Rob Key in the other thread and though it might be bit shocking to bring a player in who isn't even currently in the team as captain a change might do us some good.

He got proven captaincy experience at county level as well which not many others have.

Only negative is his less than outstanding test record! Been a while since he's had a go though.

ringo747 · 3 Aug 2008 at 15:44

Ben M said:
Why does it shock you?

Well i knew he wasn't playing well but just assumed he would still be captain right through until the next ashes - i think it was also because it was still while the sa tour is ongoing too. Maybe it would have been different once the sa series had finished. I knew it would come at some stage but just hadn't imagined it so soon.

cymatty · 3 Aug 2008 at 16:45

From the bbc

He said: "When I spoke to my dad this morning he said you can walk away a proud lad. So I really want to thank my mum and dad.

True

Hugh Morris, managing director of the England team, said of Vaughan: "He was undoubtedly the catalyst for regaining the Ashes in 2005. "His legacy will be felt for many years to come. We expect him to play a significant role in English cricket in the future.

"Michael led from the front and led with honesty and integrity every step of the way.

"He took the England captaincy to new heights. Michael was the best possible ambassador for the game and his record as captain speaks volumes for the character he instilled in the dressing room."

South Africa captain Graeme Smith, who had barely started in his own job when Vaughan replaced Nasser Hussain for the second Test against South Africa at Lord's in 2003, said: "It has come as a shock to me.

"I have the highest regard for him as person, sportsman and leader. It is a great loss for world cricket."

110% agree.

Fothsn · 3 Aug 2008 at 16:58

At least we get to see more of him at home (Yorkshire)

I’m a bit miffed at KP as a choice of both ODI and Test, he is an awesome cricket player but I cannot see captaincy in him, I would have personally choose Cook or Strauss.

roid · 3 Aug 2008 at 17:07

I really think we will see KP's batting form dip horrendously now, he is an incredible batsman and i feel with added pressure of him to perform because of his reputation + captaincy will cause him to fold.

Then again i could just be talking utter tripe

sedm1000 · 3 Aug 2008 at 17:59

England captains dont cry.

I dont go in for this hype about Vaughan being a 'great' - he inherited a strong Engand set-up that allowed him to concentrate on his on-field performance. No previous captain has had life so easy.

He often came across as a weak minded and slightly troubled. His form was consistently impacted by the pressure of captaincy. His captaincy is defined by a scraped series win against an unlucky Australian team.

Pieterson is vaunted as an instinctive cricket brain, but is no Warne. He might manage the one day side, but hasn't the character for tests. Unfortunately Strauss is the best stop-gap until Cook or some other establishes his authority. Even then he has the same issue of patchy form undermining his place in the side.

platty · 3 Aug 2008 at 18:27

sedm1000 said:
Unfortunately Strauss is the best stop-gap

Can't see how he can be tbh. As Atherton said its pretty clear collingwood was nudged out of his position as they want to unify the captaincy. Strauss is not good enough to get in the ODI team and defo no way near the Twenty-20 team so that should rule him out straight away.

Also he's lucky to be in the test team, only the bigger failings of others have taken any pressure off him. In this series Strauss averaged 23 with a strike rate of 35. Compare that to Cook who averages 45 with a strike rate of 53.

lemonkettaz · 3 Aug 2008 at 19:04

I hope he comes back and gets a few more centuries for england.

JohnnyG · 3 Aug 2008 at 19:38

I don't feel he's really resigned due to his form or the team's results, there's something else not right with the set up at the moment in his opinion as his comments on the Pattinson selection suggested.

sedm1000 · 3 Aug 2008 at 19:54

platty said:
Can't see how he can be tbh. As Atherton said its pretty clear collingwood was nudged out of his position as they want to unify the captaincy. Strauss is not good enough to get in the ODI team and defo no way near the Twenty-20 team so that should rule him out straight away.

Also he's lucky to be in the test team, only the bigger failings of others have taken any pressure off him. In this series Strauss averaged 23 with a strike rate of 35. Compare that to Cook who averages 45 with a strike rate of 53.

Can see how there has been a bit of a purge, but that can almost only mean one thing, and selecting Pieterson for both would be a bigger brain fart than Pattinson.

Strauss isn't a great captain, he's fairly average, but better than the other options. Flintoff doesn't have the brain or fitness to do it either, Cook has a few technical things to work on and hasn't established himself as a personality in the side - same for bell. Nobody else is secure enough in their place.

Pieterson is catching some rays from Warne, and this idea that his natural 'cricket brain' will see him through is pretty risky. The England selectors are renowned for their capacity for oddball and disasterous decisions. This seems likely to be another one. It is looking pretty dire at the top though currently, with Bopara and Shah apparently the best on offer coming through. Maybe elevating Boycott and Botham to the selection panel is the only way to sort the game out at the moment - sh't or bust!

platty · 3 Aug 2008 at 22:54

sedm1000 said:
Strauss isn't a great captain, he's fairly average, but better than the other options.

How when he isn't good enough to play in 2 out of the 3 forms of the game and still fighing for his place in the remaining 1? Unless we have a split captaincy again.

qwerty · 3 Aug 2008 at 23:35

My two cents:

-England always seem to give the captaincy to their best batsman. Inevitably his form then slumps.
-Graeme Smith was 22 when he got the SA captaincy so he grew up as captain AND batsman. How bout giving it to Alastair Cook (22) or someone else youngish?
-The last few England captains have all been top order batsmen. Why not try a bowler (like Shaun Pollock was captain for SA)? I would've thought a bowler would be pretty good at setting fields for other bowlers etc.