Russia Invades Georgia?

Jono8 · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:02

bakes0310 said:
Dont get reeled in by him mate, not worth it.

Anyway with what you were saying it really makes you think what next, whats there next action?

So what do you think is the worst that will happen?

I think the worst that will happen is that Georgia will backtrack their troops that they sent into south ossetia ( which started this in the first place), and ask for a ceasefire. The conflict will end and Russia will get a slap on the wrists by the international community.

Jono8 · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:02

Nimzicki said:
Oh brilliant, he's asked them to stop, thats the end of that then

You think Russia will inavde and try and take over the whole of Georgia.... :confused:

Haiku · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:03

Evangelion said:
Nevertheless, South Ossetia has been violently invaded and Georgia is attempting to bring it under her control.

The Georgians would argue they are defending the territorial integrity of their state. The Russians would argue they are defending their citizens. Either way, both are conducting violent military activities in South Ossetia.

Evangelion said:
Yet people in this thread are supporting Georgia. I don't understand why.

I'm not supporting either side. Why are you?

Tefal · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:04

Strife212 said:
Because you can't invade your own country? They went to Ossetia to crush rebels.

So if Scotland gets independence you going to send the troops in then?

Sankari · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:05

[TW]Fox;12245498 said:
I thought Ossetia was Georgian territory?

Source: CIA World Factbook

I thought it was the case that only Russia recognise them as independant and internationally, it is recognised as part of Georgia?

Yes, it is. However, it is ethnically and historically distinct from Georgia and was an independent political entity until 1801. Its status as "part of Georgia" is laughably recent, and only exists as an anachronistic leftover from the old Soviet Union.

So the wider international community did not recognise the 'vote' in SO.

Unfortunately not. It seems that if you don't have any valuable assets, the West is not interested in supporting your independence. :rolleyes:

What legitimate status is this?

The same legitimate status that Wales and Scotland enjoy as entities distinct from England.

Russia has asked the USA for assistance? Can you cite a source for this? According to leading News Agencies it is Georgia and NOT Russia who has asked for the assistance of the USA?

Yes, my mistake sorry.

scorza · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:06

Haiku said:
The Georgians would argue they are defending the territorial integrity of their state. The Russians would argue they are defending their citizens. Either way, both are conducting violent military activities in South Ossetia.

As have the South Ossetian Russians in Georgia (and I don't just mean in the South Ossetia region of Georgia).

Begbie · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:07

Tefal said:
So if Scotland gets independence you going to send the troops in then?

Try it!

Sankari · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:07

Viper² said:
I think it's disgusting that troops from one country can just walk into another under the pretense of liberating the resident population...

Except that's not what they did.

Do you think it's disgusting that Georgia sent troops into South Ossia with the intention of crushing its burgeoning independence?

Would you consider it disgusting if England sent troops into Scotland to destroy the Scottish Parliament?

[TW]Fox · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:09

Evangelion said:
Yes, it is. However, it is ethnically and historically distinct from Georgia and was an independent political entity until 1801. Its status as "part of Georgia" is laughably recent, and only exists as an anachronistic leftover from the old Soviet Union.

The reasons and rights or wrongs of it being part of Georgia are irrelevent - in the eyes of international law, it is part of Georgia. This is not to say Georgia are entirely blameless in this, I personally think it's neive for ANYONE to side with either party at this early stage, but to say the Russians have not invaded is ridiculous.

They quite clearly ARE invading Georgias territory. Whether they are justified or not is a more relevant question which we cannot currently answer.

The same legitimate status that Wales and Scotland enjoy as entities distinct from England.

Err, no.

Tefal · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:09

Begbie said:
Try it!

Hey, I'm welsh

scorza · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:09

Evangelion said:
Except that's not what they did.

Do you think it's disgusting that Georgia sent troops into South Ossia with the intention of crushing its burgeoning independence?

Except that South Ossetia is part of Georgia :rolleyes:

Evangelion said:
Would you consider it disgusting if England sent troops into Scotland to destroy the Scottish Parliament?

Not if pro-Russian Scots rebels were launching attacks into England.

Azagoth · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:09

Not long back Russia started flooding the area (Ossetia) with Russian passports just for this very day. Now, because people there have one of the said passports Russia claim they're defending their people when in reality they're just looking for a fight with Georgia and have tried to justify it with the passport scam.

gord · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:10

Evangelion said:
Would you consider it disgusting if England sent troops into Scotland to destroy the Scottish Parliament?

Not disgusting, bloody hilarious.

"Oi maaayte.. whatdya think yerr doooin?!"
"Im here to demolish your parliament, this is an invasion dont you know?!"
"Oi maaayte.. invaayde this" <glasgow kiss>
"Bloody hell, righto, retreat lads!"

Ranger07 · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:11

Truth is, Russia is a dangerous country full of bitter communist warmongerers and now they have found some oil wealth to bankroll them i presume they will be more than happy to restart cold war hostlities with the west.

We should have steam rolled into them when they were on their knees in the late 80s/90s but as they get richer they will just become more and more of a threat to all of us.

Sankari · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:13

[TW]Fox;12246037 said:
Becuase South Ossetia is territory of Georgia and is part of Georgia. It is recognised as such by the international community.

I dont understand how you can dispute this?

I am asking why people support the invasion of South Ossetia by Georgian troops whose stated intention is to impose the will of the Georgian government by violent means and prevent any attempts at Ossetian independence. I don't understand why you support this.

Haiku said:
The Georgians would argue they are defending the territorial integrity of their state. The Russians would argue they are defending their citizens. Either way, both are conducting violent military activities in South Ossetia.

Yes, but the difference is that Georgia is the aggressor; South Ossetia was attacked and Russia intervened in defence of South Ossetia.

I'm not supporting either side. Why are you?

I guess it's because I believe in democracy, freedom and independence - not totalitarianism via military rule. If you take an opposing view, there is nothing more to discuss.

Azagoth · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:16

The simple fact that a bunch of commie terrorists decided to annex part of Georgia and declare themselves independent. Now Georgia have had enough of the years of military 'mosquito bites' and are taking back what is rightly their territory.

Strife212 · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:16

Tefal said:
So if Scotland gets independence you going to send the troops in then?

Yes, if Scottish rebels constantly attack England?

Sankari · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:16

scorza said:
Except that South Ossetia is part of Georgia

Does that make it OK? Troops crushing civilians is fine because "South Ossetia is part of Georgia"?

Oh that's right, I remember; you're the guy who doesn't believe that anyone should be allowed to declare independence from anyone. :rolleyes:

I remember the Kosovo/Serbia thread, where you insisted that Serbia should be permitted to dominate the Kosovars (for reasons which remain unclear). You didn't care much for international opinion on that occasion.

Not if pro-Russian Scots rebels were launching attacks into England.

That is not what I asked.

Tefal · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:18

Ranger07 said:
Truth is, Russia is a dangerous country full of bitter communist warmongerers and now they have found some oil wealth to bankroll them i presume they will be more than happy to restart cold war hostlities with the west.

We should have steam rolled into them when they were on their knees in the late 80s/90s but as they get richer they will just become more and more of a threat to all of us.

1) they arn't communist

2) by steam rolled i assume you mean commit mass genocide with nuclear weapons while undergoing the same treatment?

3) And you call them warmongers?

Sankari · 8 Aug 2008 at 21:19

[TW]Fox;12246165 said:
The reasons and rights or wrongs of it being part of Georgia are irrelevent - in the eyes of international law, it is part of Georgia. This is not to say Georgia are entirely blameless in this, I personally think it's neive for ANYONE to side with either party at this early stage, but to say the Russians have not invaded is ridiculous.

They quite clearly ARE invading Georgias territory. Whether they are justified or not is a more relevant question which we cannot currently answer.

No, at this stage it is an infringement. It becomes an invasion if Russia declares full scale war on Georgia. The distinction is an important one.

Err, no.

Err, yes. Unless you believe that Wales is ethnically English.