E9x M3 is now below £35K
- Thread starter Housey
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I see what you're saying about having to go V8 to progress (although having switched from 4 to 6 cylinders, and then again to 8 on the M3, they're not quite as historically dogmatic as Porsche), but the result was a price hike of 20-25%. I felt Audi could get away with the RS4 because it was a more limited edition, and the residual value of the previous limited edition model stood up to scrutiny. Obviously it's easy to sit here with recession tinted specs and say things like this, but I remember thinking when the price of the E92 M3 was announced that they were pushing it to a price point where it was close to a Carrera 2, and they hadn't learnt from the last time that they tried to nick Porsches customers with the M6.
I just don't see the M3 as a £50k car, unless it's got rarity on it side, because I don't think the residuals were ever going to stand up. With that in mind, I wonder what proportion of new M3's are company cars? Does anybody know what the E92 M3 lease costs are like in comparison to a Carrera 2? I'd have thought that the higher price would mean greater depreciation, and that the gap between lease costs on the 2 cars would be even smaller than the list price gap. Who'd have a M3 over a 911 if they were on the same company car list?
The E92 M3 might be a great car, but recession or not, I don't think it had a hope of succeeding as a business proposition at it's new price point. They pushed the badge too far imo.
The upshot of course is that the higher list price meant a better car, so when the depreciation hits, a £30k E92 will be a better car than a £30k E46 was a few years ago, which for anyone in the market for a used M3 will get a hell of a bit of kit...
I'm not sure that's fair. You could buy/lease a new E46 M3 in late 2006, and even taking into account higher than normal inflation over the last year or so, at 3% that £42k would be ~£44.5k today, as opposed to the current list price of £51,330. Even taking into account inflation, that's still a hike of over 15%.
EDIT: LOL @ £84.5k list price of the M6! What exactly do you get for the £18.5k premium over the M5 with the same engine/gearbox?
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I can't think of any manufacturer who is as dogmatic as Porsche has been with the 911, they have taken a pretty compromised design and evolved it to a level that still allows it to be viewed as a 'must consider' for anyone seeking to buy a premium sports car. There was a lot of discussion on MTorque about the price of the E92 M3 and even taking into account inflation it was a more expensive car than the E46 though a better specced car in standard form.
The fact remains that when the E46 M3 came out there were 6 month plus waiting lists for 18 months and with the E92, once the press hype and spin had died down, there was stock available within about 3 months of its release. I think BMW have it priced wrong and this is why today I would think anything less than 8% to 10% discount on a new one as a failiure for that is where they are right now within the BMW network. No question that being close to a 911 C2 is a risk, but 911's have also taken a bath of late so are no longer the safe pace for your money unless you're buying into a GT 911 of some form. GT3's and GT3 RS's are still up and around list price 2nd hand and Porsche will still buy them back at list less £3K today!
Each M3 has evolved from its former version, it has to as the world changes and the E92 is no different. More power, more weight, more toys, more cost, more risk.
The fact remains that when the E46 M3 came out there were 6 month plus waiting lists for 18 months and with the E92, once the press hype and spin had died down, there was stock available within about 3 months of its release. I think BMW have it priced wrong and this is why today I would think anything less than 8% to 10% discount on a new one as a failiure for that is where they are right now within the BMW network. No question that being close to a 911 C2 is a risk, but 911's have also taken a bath of late so are no longer the safe pace for your money unless you're buying into a GT 911 of some form. GT3's and GT3 RS's are still up and around list price 2nd hand and Porsche will still buy them back at list less £3K today!
Each M3 has evolved from its former version, it has to as the world changes and the E92 is no different. More power, more weight, more toys, more cost, more risk.
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lol they tested that on a fifth gear episode ages ago, I think it was like a tenth of a second quicker. I believe the M6 also has some carbon fibre that the M5 might not have. Although if you were unsure about the M5 or M6, the M5 would be the better choice - £18,500 for a few alterations? Lol.
I don't think anyone can argue that BMW has taken a major bath with the M6. Personally I think it's really ugly which is not a great start for such a car and its value over the M5 is dubious at best. Put that to one side there is no denying that on a bang for buck its a hell of a second hand buy at the moment, though in 2 years time I suspect they will be in the low £20K's!
A little OT but I assume the residuals on 997’s must have been hit quite hard especially the Tip boxes due to the new face lift. I personally really like it, the extra power and lower fuel consumption make the care even more attractive. I still dont know if I would go for a PDK
997 residuals have been all over the place of late. I think the 997 is stunning value at the moment as you can get a C2S for 40's and trust me it's AMAZING value at that level. I would hold fire on PDK as Porsche has got it wrong with the way they have configured the steering changes and by all accounts have now accepted that and are about to make a change to the steering wheel so it works like one wold expect. Seems Walter is not always right.
The stated power difference between the E36 Evo and the E46 wasn't massive. Could they not have got away with applying some of the cheaper CSL engine mods to the E92, and pricing it in the mid 40's?
Nope, they needed over 400bhp because of the weight of the thing and to get a CSL to over 400bhp would mean massive expense and 6K service intervals. The S54 engine was at the end of its tune cycle and really they had to go V8 for its power and packaging advantages. BMW, in my view, still makes the best range of engines in the world and the new V8 is another gem.
That would be interesting. New price on the M5 and M6 was massively different, but now the prices are broadly similar. A drop to low 20's would either mean the M5 coming down to the same level at the same time, or it would mean that the Coupe would be cheaper than the saloon!
I'll lend you the money - 8% APR3k to go and I can afford one
Christ, there's a dozen 997's at under £40,000 on the trader!
What's PDK, and is the 997 a big step up from the 996?
I agree on the range of engines, but wasn't the V8 (and the V10 for that matter) reported as being relatively low on torque? I didn't think the press were massively keen on the E92 M3?
PDK is Porsche's replacement for the TipTronic auto box which was a love/hate device. PDK is like the current run of DCT/DSG boxes in that its a double clutch manual with paddle change. The problem is Porsche decided that the way you changed gear was at odds with everyone else to much constanation.
The 997 is a better car than the 996, not least inside where the interior is much better, a weakness in previous 911's. The C2 and C2S have more power and its slightly more refined. As with all 911's its lots of small 'tweaks' that improve the overall car, though I did feel the steering lost a little sharpness in the 997 over the 996.
Like all 911's you MUST buy with caution but get a good one, and most of them are good and you will have a truly amazing sports car that should look after you and be relatively ecconomical to run if all is well. The 997 has 20K service intervals for example!
The 997 is a better car than the 996, not least inside where the interior is much better, a weakness in previous 911's. The C2 and C2S have more power and its slightly more refined. As with all 911's its lots of small 'tweaks' that improve the overall car, though I did feel the steering lost a little sharpness in the 997 over the 996.
Like all 911's you MUST buy with caution but get a good one, and most of them are good and you will have a truly amazing sports car that should look after you and be relatively ecconomical to run if all is well. The 997 has 20K service intervals for example!
the 997's have fallen a lot over the last 6 months, Which Is why I decided to hold out for the new face lift.
they are starting at 36k (or 33 for a dog of a car)
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/...gesize=15&xsl=list&y1=&y2=&d=0&dist=&nodays=0
they are starting at 36k (or 33 for a dog of a car)
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/...gesize=15&xsl=list&y1=&y2=&d=0&dist=&nodays=0
Nah, the press liked the car overall I think, just felt it had lost some of the edge of the previous models, not least the E46. They said the same thing with the E36 too but cars move on.
Low on torque is fair, but its and engine that you need to rev and when you do you soon forget about the lack of torque. Its a different approach really but I think the V8 in the M3 is better than the much praised V8 in the RS4, not least because none of the RS4's get close to Audi's numbers. This is why the R8 is not as quick as people think it should be and why there are a number of annoyed RS4 owners in the US taking Audi to court over it.
My RS4 pulled 366bhp on a rolling road............and that is the norm.
My interest in cars like this is realistically only really from 'one day' perspective. I'd read that a warranty was a MUST for the Boxster S/996, is this true, and if so, does the same apply to the 997?
Face-lift Boxster S for ~£15k, Early GT3 kitted 996 for ~£20k, and 3 year old 997's that have shed £20k plus.
It's a hell of a time to buy if you've got money!
I would not buy any performance car or expensive car without a warranty. If a 911 or Boxster goes wrong in a big way which they can do it will be expensive to put right. I wouldn't buy one without an official Porsche Warranty as I feel the risk is too high. I never had to use mine on my GT3 for anything more major than a door motor for the window and radio but I still wouldn't consider not having a warranty.
not a chance unfortunately
£15k would be a struggle, let alone £20k...
Glass's has trade at £16,200