Undeniable proof UFO's are Real?

-Tauren- said:
what if its just a passer-by not aware that the planet it is currently visiting has life on it until the last minute when it is too late and spotted by someone? :p
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There can't be that many utterly incompetent people flying spaceships with the autopilot off and/or most of the sensors dead. Humanity throws out obviously artificial signals all over the place. There's no way a ship nearby could miss them.
 
dmpoole said:
I'd like to think so but the 5 parts of this series have made me realise how delicate and how many millions of things happened to Earth in the right order and are still happening.
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But I'll bet that nowhere in the series did it suggest that that sequence of events, in that order, was required to yield life. I won't deny that we know that sequence works of course, because we're here.

Can you categorically say that this is the only sequence that works? I doubt it, and I doubt that any scientist worth their qualifications would either. If other sequences can exist, then other life can also exist.

Whether such life visits us and attempts to strike up friendly banter with the nearest cow is another completely different question. I have no evidence either way, but the fact that the evidence for most sightings seems to emanate from those who either don't understand the science or have lost more than a few marbles casts doubt on any beliefs I might otherwise have had.

PS - there was a supposed sighting about 2 miles from here last week. Didn't see it myself and I don't have details other than a thread on another forum.
 
magick said:
And I wouldn't say the chances of life evolving on another planet are virtualy zero. How many other planets have we been to, to confrim this?
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It's the most likely conclusion from all the available evidence regarding stars, planets and life in general, and then the much more detailed evidence we have on Earth.

Intelligent life, even life in general, is almost certainly a freak event, so unlikely that it makes winning the lottery look like a good bet.

There is, of course, the possibility of extremely different life, e.g. some form of life that lives inside stars, but that would be pretty much irrelevant to us even if it did exist, and there's no reason to think it does. In the even more unlikely event of these star-creatures being star-people, we and they would be so alien to each other that we probably wouldn't even notice each other's existence, let alone interact.
 
Angilion said:
Intelligent life, even life in general, is almost certainly a freak event, so unlikely that it makes winning the lottery look like a good bet.
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Haha @ intelligent life a freak event. So consciousness and the universe just poped into existance from nothing, it's all a big accident? Essentialy you'r suggesting that life isn't suppose to exist.

Lets get this right then. Just for some random reason there was this big explosion and billions of galaxies and stars were formed, accidently of course using your logic.

And again accidently in one of these billions of stars that are one of billions of galaxies another freak event of humongous proportions occured and intelligent life appeared.

So you'r saying all these billions and billions of galaxies just appeared for no reason? And we for even less of a reason?

I'd say the universe exists only exists to give birth to intelligent life.
 
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dmpoole said:
If you say it was a giant reptile I'm going to hunt you down and eat you.
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*awaits giant reptile comment* :D

I suspect that microbial life may not be as uncommon as many here suggest. Given the prevalence of life on this planet, life seems remarkably varied and resilient. Intelligent life, however, I also expect will be rare. It all comes down to the Drake equation. Filling in the unknowns there leads to anywhere between life being prevalent to the Earth being completely unique.
 
magick said:
And again accidently in one of these billions of stars that are one of billions of galaxies another freak event of humongous proportions occured and intelligent life appeared.
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A freak occurrence relative to what? It has to be comparable to something else what makes it unusual?

Look at the big picture. It would sound like an incredibly unlikely event if you had something similar to compare it to, but you don't.
 
magick said:
But there's huge amount of evidence and testimony suggesting they have and are visiting us.
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With not one single piece of compelling evidence.

We're not talking about events that are impossible to detect and/or understand without unusual equipment and/or a very high level of education in the relevant field.

We're talking about people and spaceships.

People with a technology so far in advance of our own that a comparison is silly.

If they wanted to stay hidden, there would be little or no evidence, not even indirectly.

If they didn't want to stay hidden, there would be ample evidence. Like an alien ship flying over a major city early in the afternoon, seen by many thousands of people and with clear video of it.

The only explanation I've read that (a) involves aliens and (b) is consistent with the evidence is the joke Douglas Adams put in Hitchikers - that all these sightings are adolescents, probably drunk, who think it's amusing to mess with the inhabitants of primitive societies.
 
magick said:
Haha @ intelligent life a freak event. So consciousness and the universe just poped into existance from nothing, it's all a big accident? Essentialy you'r suggesting that life isn't suppose to exist.
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You're assuming a Creator and then using your assumption (which I don't share) to make a claim about my opinion. A claim which would be unfounded even if I did share your assumption, which I don't. Winning the lottery is a freak event - do you assume that lottery winners aren't supposed to exist? That every time there's a winner, the people running the lottery say "Oh no, that wasn't supposed to happen!", or something like that?

Lets get this right then. Just for some random reason there was this big explosion and billions of galaxies and stars were formed, accidently of course using your logic.
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You demonstrate your inability to use "my" logic in your attempt to advocate your religious beliefs.

And again accidently in one of these billions of stars that are one of billions of galaxies another freak event of humongous proportions occured and intelligent life appeared.
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Probably a number of freak events, not just one.

So you'r saying all these billions and billions of galaxies just appeared for no reason? And we for even less of a reason?
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How can you have less than no reason?

I think reason is probably unconnected. I don't have faith in a Creator. You do.

"just appeared" isn't necessarily the case. If time is part of the universe, then there was no time before the universe, therefore the universe has always existed. No creation needed.

I'd say the universe exists only exists to give birth to intelligent life.
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Then why is most of it so utterly unsuited to life at all, let alone intelligent life? Is your Creator doing a really poor job of it, or are they just leaving lots of room for expansion.

Maybe it's all just a big game to while away the aeons, with various gods having various species to play with, to grow into major covilisations and fight for power. Intergalatic Rise Of Nations, God Edition. That would explain why the species are placed far apart at the beginning of the game.
 
dmpoole said:
Did anybody watch this? -

SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENTARY: Earth: The Power of the Planet
On: BBC 2 Midlands (102)
Date: Sunday 31st August 2008 (Already shown)
Time: 19:00 to 20:00 (1 hour long)

Rare Earth. Episode 5.

[..]

It should be on I-Player.
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It is. I've just started watching it. I'd like to see the other 4 episodes, shame I missed them.

He's irritated me even before the end of the intro.

"Now Earth is facing its greatest challange.

Humankind.

The question is...will it survive?"

No, that isn't the question. Humanity probably couldn't destroy the planet even if they tried. I say "probably", because it might be possible to render Earth's orbit unstable with a dedicated and united effort (although I don't know how and doubt if human technology could do it), eventually resulting in Earth being destroyed by the sun.

You might say that the question is whether humanity will survive, even if life on Earth will survive, but not whether the Earth will survive.

Such an obviously wrong question so early on has put me off the whole program.

EDIT: At the end, he emphasised that himself.

So in changing this world, we're altering the very environment that has allowed the human race to thrive. We could be creating conditions that threaten the long-term survival of our civilisation. So all this stuff about saving planet Earth, well, that's not the problem. Planet earth doesn't need saving. Earth is a great survivor. It's not the planet we should be worrying about. It's us.
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Angilion said:
With not one single piece of compelling evidence.

We're not talking about events that are impossible to detect and/or understand without unusual equipment and/or a very high level of education in the relevant field.

We're talking about people and spaceships.

People with a technology so far in advance of our own that a comparison is silly.

If they wanted to stay hidden, there would be little or no evidence, not even indirectly.

If they didn't want to stay hidden, there would be ample evidence. Like an alien ship flying over a major city early in the afternoon, seen by many thousands of people and with clear video of it.

The only explanation I've read that (a) involves aliens and (b) is consistent with the evidence is the joke Douglas Adams put in Hitchikers - that all these sightings are adolescents, probably drunk, who think it's amusing to mess with the inhabitants of primitive societies.
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Theirs plenty of compelling evidence, unfortunatley it appears the vast majority of people have already either made their mind up they don't believe, don't want to believe or can't accept it's even possible.

I'd hazzard a guess most cases are rubbish which tends to be the basis for the masses to ridicule the few.

Travis Walton event in 1975 - several people who have now had at least 2 state lie detector tests and passed

Rendlesham forest US airforce base in UK in 1980, at the time this was one of the biggest nuclear sites in europe and outside the US, theres still no official MOD plausible explanation for what was witnessed by the deputy base commander and upto 70ish military staff over 2 nights and was caught on radar with other witnesses, undeniably something landed within the restricted zone and by definition this surely must be one of the biggest breaches in national security ever in this country, also why would the base commander effectively ruin his entire career progression by writing to the MOD and maintaining his story, with such an arsenal of supporting evidence and credible witnesses, would suggest people spend some time reading this case in detail, its incredible
 
ten80p said:
Travis Walton event in 1975 - several people who have now had at least 2 state lie detector tests and passed
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I don't know the story but just to point out that a lie detector test is not infallible, it only shows that the person either believes in what they are saying (so they may not realise they are lying e.g. a person with paranoid delusions could potentially pass) or that they have exceptional control over their bodies responses.

While it may be more likely that they actually believe what they are saying to be true it doesn't rule out that they may be mistaken in their genuine belief.
 
semi-pro waster said:
I don't know the story but just to point out that a lie detector test is not infallible, it only shows that the person either believes in what they are saying (so they may not realise they are lying e.g. a person with paranoid delusions could potentially pass) or that they have exceptional control over their bodies responses.

While it may be more likely that they actually believe what they are saying to be true it doesn't rule out that they may be mistaken in their genuine belief.
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Travis Walton Event :-

Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHN3TjwSjJk
Part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5T-R_ZqmxQ&feature=related
 
Rendlesham forest

lighthouse beam from a lighthouse

loads of discrepancies amongst those witnesses as to what actually happened...
 
ten80p said:
Theirs plenty of compelling evidence, unfortunatley it appears the vast majority of people have already either made their mind up they don't believe, don't want to believe or can't accept it's even possible.
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Sadly it is usually those that believe in UFOs and aliens that dont want to believe or can't accept the truth. There is no compelling evidence, it seems that every time a photo or film is taken of a UFO the camera man forgets how to use his camera and we get grainy, blurred or otherwise unrecognisable images. Every time someone gets abducted it seems to be someone with serious issues prior to abduction. Going by the many shapes, colours, sizes of UFOs that visit the planet we seem to be on some sort of interglactic shipping route too.

As much as I would love there to be proof of life outside of Earth, so far there just hasn't been any.
 
Surfer said:
Rendlesham forest

lighthouse beam from a lighthouse

loads of discrepancies amongst those witnesses as to what actually happened...
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LOL. Does a beam from a lighthouse manifest itself as metalic triangle that's stationary fro 40 mins while being witnessed by lots of millitary personal then silently levitate up in the air and accelerate off at speeds breaking the laws of physics?
 
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