Sigh, my gf is now bhuddist...

[Grrrrr]

are you an idiot = no.
Can you behave like an idiot = yes
can you appear to be an idiot in certain subjects = yes.

So now we've established what idiot means how has Einstein's religious belief made him one?

It's my understanding that most religious beliefs stems from to 2 key points, how did we come to exist and what happens when we die? (Possibly with the third point of having the need to believe a higher power is looking over our lives)

By explaining these things in a unjustified but positive light (wouldn't it be fantastic if heaven exist and we all live happily ever after?) shows human weakness.

 

[Glaucus]

(wouldn't it be fantastic if heaven exist and we all live happily ever after?) .

No, Couldn't think of anything worse than having an eternal life. Also we only experience pleasure through pain. without one you can't experience the other. As human feelings are a comparison.

As everyone believes different things and has different reasons for having those believes. Not everyone has that believe for those two reasons. Those are just two things that are picked up on.
He is an idiot, because what he said was retarded. Only for the week minded. When there are clearly many people who believe that are neither week minded or scared.

 

[Shoseki]

Of all the religions, Buddhism would be one of the least intrusive you would think...

Put it this way, at least she's getting involved in something rather than blobbing out in from of the soaps for 30 years...

 

[LordSplodge]

just dump her...meh

I think she'll dump him.

Anyhoo what's with the argument about idiots? Sure even somebody like Hawkings or Einstein can act like an idiot from time to time.

However I disagree that having faith is idiotic.

 

[LordSplodge]

No, Couldn't think of anything worse than having an eternal life. Also we only experience pleasure through pain. without one you can't experience the other. As human feelings are a comparison.

Agreed. I don't get the eternal life & happiness thing. Pleasure is nothing without pain.

 

[mrk]

Sometimes the smartest people have the most to learn.

From my experience people who have set beliefs or have been brought up with a set belief are very hard to give open opinions to or for them to accept a second opinion.

Humans are very competitive and it’s not unlikely that “if” religion was a product of one society then the same could be for others as well.
We also need closure for things we don’t understand and it’s quite convenient that religion provides closure to all the questions man has about how he was created.

If you think about it without a faith based system in place things would be very different right now, there would be chaos everywhere…after all, why be a good soul when being a bad one won’t send you to the depths of a fiery cave forever after?

I think this GF has made up her mind tbh, she seems like one of these people who are quite intelligent but not quite intelligent enough to keep an open mind about others around them.

I’m not 150 IQ smart but I’m smart enough to understand how people work and be able to step back and look at the bigger picture of the world!

-

Also for what I mentioned above about chaos, look at today’s youth, they’re not religious at all, they don’t have faith in anything and only care about themselves and their peers. We have a hard time controlling antisocial behaviour as it is and it’s getting worse as society gets a dumbing down by those in control especially those with a hand over electronic media today (look at America as an example right now).

Maybe this post makes no sense, maybe it does. I wonder what Jesus would do…

 

[Glaucus]

If you think about it without a faith based system in place things would be very different right now, there would be chaos everywhere…after all, why be a good soul when being a bad one won’t send you to the depths of a fiery cave forever after?

What you mean just like tribes of animals that do just fine with out a God believe. We do things like that to help our species out. Looking after each other and protection in numbers. you don't need God to be in a very similar society as we are in now.

 

[Grrrrr]

If you think about it without a faith based system in place things would be very different right now, there would be chaos everywhere…after all, why be a good soul when being a bad one won’t send you to the depths of a fiery cave forever after?

When discussing religion this point often comes up, 'it teaches good morals'.

Do you not think it slightly backwards that most religions have predefined notions of what good morals are? Would we as humans not be better looking into our selves and how our actions affect others to determine what good morals are?

 

[mrk]

The animal kingdom doesn’t have social classes like we do in the human world.
We were however animals one day and have since then evolved from that into individual thinkers separated by various cultures.

 

[Glaucus]

The animal kingdom doesn’t have social classes like we do in the human world.

There's many complex social groups within the animal kingdom.

 

[mrk]

When discussing religion this point often comes up, 'it teaches good morals'.

Do you not think it slightly backwards that most religions have predefined notions of what good morals are? Would we as humans not be better looking into our selves and how our actions affect others to determine what good morals are?

Are you saying that religion helps us look at our morals for what is right and wrong?

If so then yes it does but even without religion there would still be an understanding of what is right and wrong.

 

[Monkey Puzzle]

Are you saying that religion helps us look at our morals for what is right and wrong?

If so then yes it does but even without religion there would still be an understanding of what is right and wrong.

I think the point he was making is that it's argued that religion teaches us what is right and wrong, but it's actually bad at doing that since the morals it teaches are fairly set in stone and so become outdated, eg homosexuality, slavery...

 

[Grrrrr]

Are you saying that religion helps us look at our morals for what is right and wrong?

If so then yes it does but even without religion there would still be an understanding of what is right and wrong.

I think you misunderstood what i was saying slightly, I was essentially making the same point that you are.

As an extension of this...

If you take person A who follows her life according to how the bible teaches good morals and take Person B who follows life according to their own set of morals would that not make B a better person? Rather than just accepting what someone else has essentially chosen as good morals like person A, person B has looked into himself and how his actions have affected other people through life and determined his morals based on those things.

I'm not sure if i'm getting my point across very well

 

[mrk]

There's many complex social groups within the animal kingdom.

Hmm? I think you’ve misunderstood what I’m getting at.

In the animal kingdom it’s all survival of the fittest whereas in our world the fittest survive better than the poorest whilst the people getting along just fine lend a hand to the poor – class structures.

What I mean is we don’t need religion as a society today but at the same time we do need it. It’s hard to explain without it sounding out of place.

Think of it like current politics. People are trying to make a change in a 21st century world using 20th century politics – it just won’t work out and people won’t agree to disagree. Changes are needed and on the whole I guess it will happen….slowly.

 

[semi-pro waster]

If you think about it without a faith based system in place things would be very different right now, there would be chaos everywhere…after all, why be a good soul when being a bad one won’t send you to the depths of a fiery cave forever after?

Perhaps but alternatively you can argue that a moral code of sorts would have to form for any society to succeed. Whether that had to be religious or not is a matter for debate, I'd contend not provided there was something that people could focus on as laying out the moral code - be that a king or whatever.

Also for what I mentioned above about chaos, look at today’s youth, they’re not religious at all, they don’t have faith in anything and only care about themselves and their peers. We have a hard time controlling antisocial behaviour as it is and it’s getting worse as society gets a dumbing down by those in control especially those with a hand over electronic media today (look at America as an example right now).

America isn't a particularly great example for illustrating the point, America has more vocally religious people (and that includes young people) than Britain but it is hardly a bastion of moral propriety. Religion != morality.

There are quite a few moral codes set out in religious texts and they are sensible to follow by and large but things like thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal etc etc are just logical for any functional society.

 

[Grrrrr]

Hmm? I think you’ve misunderstood what I’m getting at.

In the animal kingdom it’s all survival of the fittest whereas in our world the fittest survive better than the poorest whilst the people getting along just fine lend a hand to the poor – class structures.

In large parts of the human world it's survival of the fittest and by contrast large parts of the animal kingdom rely on and look out for their own. Ants for instance

 

[mrk]

I think you misunderstood what i was saying slightly, I was essentially making the same point that you are.

As an extension of this...

If you take person A who follows her life according to how the bible teaches good morals and take Person B who follows life according to their own set of morals would that not make B a better person? Rather than just accepting what someone else has essentially chosen as good morals like person A, person B has looked into himself and how his actions have affected other people through life and determined his morals based on those things.

I'm not sure if i'm getting my point across very well

Yes yes! this is what I mean!
Outdated methods in a up to date world. Like the Vatican having their own science section now which studies astronomy and invites scholars from *** world over to discuss varous aspects. This shows religion is changing though at a slower pace than than society.

 

[Monkey Puzzle]

Hmm? I think you’ve misunderstood what I’m getting at.

In the animal kingdom it’s all survival of the fittest whereas in our world the fittest survive better than the poorest whilst the people getting along just fine lend a hand to the poor – class structures.

What I mean is we don’t need religion as a society today but at the same time we do need it. It’s hard to explain without it sounding out of place.

Think of it like current politics. People are trying to make a change in a 21st century world using 20th century politics – it just won’t work out and people won’t agree to disagree. Changes are needed and on the whole I guess it will happen….slowly.

Are you suggesting religion also has a monopoly on charity as well as morality?

 

[drunkenmaster]

Agreed. I don't get the eternal life & happiness thing. Pleasure is nothing without pain.

i pointed this out in the religion thread a while back. THe idea of eternal life, eternity, infinite time, seriously. You have sex every second of the day for 2 months you'd want a break, do it for a year all day every day and you'd be flat out bored and never want to do it again. LIkewise, you might love football but watch or play it all day and it gets boring, we're not talking a few days, eternity, EVERYTHING would get very very boring, after 2-300 years you'd have simply done everything, you'd be an expert in every sport, science, everything, you'd have nothing left to do and be basically unable to die and bored for the rest of time.

Nothing sounds like worse punishment, boredom without any escape at all, so few people, basically no one has ever truly thought about why they want to be in heaven. Yes no one wants to die, everyone wants more time, but the idea of living for thousands of years is just horrible. If its finite, what time is it, an extra 2 years, 20, 200, 2000, 20000? Its all just a pointless idea and I can't believe how many people believe in heaven but put zero thought into what it would be like if it were real, and how awful it would actually be.

 

[mrk]

Are you suggesting religion also has a monopoly on charity as well as morality?

Hey!

America is more religious than the UK though which was why I used them as an example. How many times has our PM mentioned god in any of his public appearances? Now look at how many times Senators over there do the same.

I know it doesn’t have the same motion since America is much larger than us but they’re one of the biggest influence on the world these days