The Police Just Knocked...

Mr Jones · 15 Oct 2008 at 23:59

The Humberside Police are so friendly aren't they? Come knocking on the door at 23:50 and on opening the door, I get bright torches in my eyes asking if I'm "so and so", to which i replied no and he's upstairs in his room.

One of them just simply walk into the shared house without another word to me (be it may I come in or thank you), waltz upstairs to the "so and so's" room to speak to him.

Meh.

This is like the 3rd occasion the police have visited just to see him. AFAIK, he's the boyfriend of my upstairs, quiet/unsociable girl. He's was released on bail 3 weeks ago and have more or less lived here since. He's an alright lad, at least on day to day seeing him in the house. Or he might just be nice to be because I'm probably the only Orient in this house of 5 others that speaks to him.

Anyway, back to the Police... I'm bit iffy with the rights and laws but what just happen? Did the copper just pop in to check if he's in during his curfew hours or what?

Scuzi · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:03

I believe the police need either a warrant or the householders permission to enter a property.

I have no idea if this is fact though, it's just my belief. Someone more in the know will need to confirm / rubbish it.

int · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:04

I'm fairly sure if he's on curfew, a specific person / rep will come in and check at random and is shouldn't be a police officer unless they suspect he's gone missing (i.e. he's got an electronic tag and the alarm has gone off).

Mr Jones · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:10

I don't know about the tag but the person that visited was clearly a PCO, not the usually community / parole officer. As for a warrant, there was nothing. I just didn't feel like making things harder, it's late, I'm tired and been working on my uni work all evening.

I just find the basic respect given to the average joe public from a public servant is appalling. Basic courtesy should be in their training if it's not already there.

p4radox · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:20

Surely they can't just walk into your house like that?

Maccy · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:22

Scuzi said:
I believe the police need either a warrant or the householders permission to enter a property.

I have no idea if this is fact though, it's just my belief. Someone more in the know will need to confirm / rubbish it.

You're correct, I know this for a fact as my mum used to work for Victim Support (love em or hate em!) and she has told me a few times that police always have and always will have to have the householder's permission to enter or produce a warrant.

Carzy · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:23

You should send an S.O.S to the world.

I hope that someone gets it though.

Slinwagh · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:27

A Police Officer can enter any premises without permission or a warrant depending on the circumstances.

Mr Jones · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:31

Maccy said:
You're correct, I know this for a fact as my mum used to work for Victim Support (love em or hate em!) and she has told me a few times that police always have and always will have to have the householder's permission to enter or produce a warrant.

Slinwagh said:
A Police Officer can enter any premises without permission or a warrant depending on the circumstances.

We're all just tenets, so does that mean, technically if we say no, it doesn't matter? It's abit confusing whether they are allowed or not.

Vulcan · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:33

Mr Jones said:
We're all just tenets, so does that mean, technically if we say no, it doesn't matter? It's abit confusing whether they are allowed or not.

To check if someone is in their room? Not allowed.

Maccy · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:34

Search of premises

Except for anti-terrorist operations, unless you are arrested (see below) there are very few grounds on which a constable can enter your home to conduct a search without a search warrant from a magistrate. Even where there is a power to enter premises -- for example to prevent a breach of the peace -- this does not confer a power to search.
As far as anti-terrorist measures are concerned, if authorised by a senior police officer, a constable may enter your home without a warrant to search for materials that may be used for terrorism [s37 TA]. This power of search is subject to the same controls as anti-terrorist stop-and-search procedures. In particular, its use must be notified to the Home Secretary, and the authorising officer has to have reasonable grounds that it is necessary to prevent terrorism.

In most other circumstances a search will be unlawful without a warrant, unless you consent to it. A magistrate has a general power to issue a search warrant against your home if he or she reasonably believes that (i) a `serious arrestable offence' has been committed; and (ii) evidence relevant to the investigation of that offence is likely to be found there; and (iii) there is no other way to gain access except with a warrant. There are also technical restrictions that may not be very relevant; for example, the magistrate must have reasonable grounds for believing that material sought is not protected by legal professional privilege.

A `serious arrestable offence' is, in essence, one that results in death or serious injury, rape, kidnapping, or serious financial loss. It follows that a magistrate may not issue a search warrant to search for evidence of minor thefts, for example.

Magistrates also have specific powers to issue search warrants in respect of, for example, offensive weapons [s142 CJA], nuclear weapons (!) [s52 ATCSA], dangerous chemicals [s66 ATCSA], hidden terrorists [s42 TA], firearms or imitation firearms [s46 FA], and controlled drugs [s23 MDA].

In all cases, the magistrate is expected to grant the warrant only if there are reasonable grounds to believe that the sought articles are likely to be found. However, it is not uncommon for the police to ask for, and get, a warrant to search for a broad range of articles, e.g., `electrical items'.

A search warrant is normally valid for one month after issue; it cannot be lawfully executed if this time period has expired.

So there's very few terms that they can enter without a warrant. Just search around for 'police search rights' or similar.

Slinwagh · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:35

Longbow said:
To check if someone is in their room? Not allowed.

But you do not know the reason why they entered the premises so to say it is not allowed may not be correct.

Slinwagh · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:39

If I was to see a guy coming out of his house with a kilo of cocaine I could enter the house without a warrant and search it.

You can enter any premises to execute an arrest warrant without a warrant if that makes sense.

Vulcan · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:41

Slinwagh said:
But you do not know the reason why they entered the premises so to say it is not allowed may not be correct.

Yeah you are right, the PCSO was probably looking for WMDs.

Seriously, if it was for terrorism, or something serious, I think they would have sent more than a PCSO, and they would have said something.

So again ... not allowed

Slinwagh said:
If I was to see a guy coming out of his house with a kilo of cocaine I could enter the house without a warrant and search it.

You can enter any premises to execute an arrest warrant without a warrant if that makes sense.

But then why ask for the guy called "so and so".

Scuzi · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:42

Slinwagh said:
If I was to see a guy coming out of his house with a kilo of cocaine I could enter the house without a warrant and search it.

You can enter any premises to execute an arrest warrant without a warrant if that makes sense.

You're a police officer?

Sweet Jesus.

Mr Jones · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:43

The police wasn't here to search the property but was seeking 1 specific person whom I've told is upstairs in his room, is that allowed? It's not like there's drugs in the house or anything but having the door banged so damn loud at wee hours isn't fun.

Slinwagh · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:44

Scuzi said:
You're a police officer?

Sweet Jesus.

No I used to be in the Special Constabulary, I just said "I" because it saved explaining that I was in the Special Constabulary!

Slinwagh · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:45

Mr Jones said:
The police wasn't here to search the property but was seeking 1 specific person whom I've told is upstairs in his room, is that allowed? It's not like there's drugs in the house or anything but having the door banged so damn loud at wee hours isn't fun.

You sort of implied it was OK for them to enter. They were perfectly within the law to ask if Mr X was in the house.

Scuzi · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:46

Mr Jones said:
The police wasn't here to search the property but was seeking 1 specific person whom I've told is upstairs in his room, is that allowed? It's not like there's drugs in the house or anything but having the door banged so damn loud at wee hours isn't fun.

Were.

Tomorrow, call the Citizens Advice Bureau and ask if they can shed some light on the actual law. Or even better, call your local police station and ask for advice.
If the police officer wasn't allowed to enter your property without a warrant and you did not give him permission to enter, you can file a complaint with the IPCC - http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/

"andy" · 16 Oct 2008 at 00:47

id give the local station a call in the morning to ask what happened and maybe ask them to come at more sociable hours next time when its not important