Top Clown returns Sunday 2nd November 2008 **SPOILERS**

Most the hydrogen will be produced from splitting water into oxygen and hydrogen. This requires massive amounts of energy...
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No it doesn't - get a 9volt battery - connect a peice of wire to the +ve term and a peice of wire to the -ve term - put both bits of wire into some water - voila - reasonable amounts of Hydrogen and Oxygen for very little energy.

Producing enough Hydrogen to run a car for 200 miles certainly requires less energy than drilling for oil the refining it into petrol.

I'd be more concerned about Hydrogen escaping into the atmosphere
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What? Where it will combine with Oxygen and form water? Like happens entirely naturally everyday?
 
amigafan2003 said:
No it doesn't - get a 9volt battery - connect a peice of wire to the +ve term and a peice of wire to the -ve term - put both bits of wire into some water - voila - reasonable amounts of Hydrogen and Oxygen for very little energy.
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No you don't get reasonable amount of hydrogen and oxygen like this. In fact even if you completely exhausted an alkaline PP3 battery by electrolysing water, the gas produced would have an energy content equivalent to less than 0.5 milliliters of petrol. A teaspoon holds 5 milliliters just for reference.

Producing useful amounts of hydrogen by splitting water DOES require vast amounts of energy, and you always get less energy out than you put in. A simple electrolysis cell is about 80% efficient.
 
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Great episode this week. Probably my favourite this season.

Did the later time of 9-10 give them some flexibility on sexual innuendo? Funny nonetheless.
 
gord said:
Great episode this week. Probably my favourite this season.

Did the later time of 9-10 give them some flexibility on sexual innuendo? Funny nonetheless.
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And a few swearies as well let out :)

Prefer it at 9pm to be honest..
 
I enjoyed this episode also.

Having it at 9 o clock definatley suits them a lot more as they are dying to let our some swearing and sexual innuendos and having the later time slot allows them to do so.

Loved the touring car bit. I agree that the past few years has been poor but i'm still psyched up for next season!
 
Dutch Guy said:
Maybe I missed it but did they mention the price of the Honda?
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I believe it's only available on lease to selected individuals and is $600/month or something so presumably very heavily subsidised too!

Enjoyed it this week, much preferred it over last week.
 
amigafan2003 said:
No it doesn't - get a 9volt battery - connect a peice of wire to the +ve term and a peice of wire to the -ve term - put both bits of wire into some water - voila - reasonable amounts of Hydrogen and Oxygen for very little energy.
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Pure comedy!

Did you actually think before you posted? Or did you make it up?
For a hydrogen future we need nuclear power. Then you have to ask, why not make all car's electric anyway?

Regarding oil, producing and refining a barrel foes cost that much.
 
Simon said:
For a hydrogen future we need nuclear power. Then you have to ask, why not make all car's electric anyway?
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For the reasons highlighted by Top Gear I imagine, namely a) takes too long to recharge, b) not everyone has access to a garage with a power supply.
 
For a hydrogen future we need nuclear power. Then you have to ask, why not make all car's electric anyway?
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Plus all the harmful rare metals needed to make the batteries :-?

Re my earlier comments - it takes around 15% more energy (you can read that as electricty if you want) to produce enough petrol for a car to do 200miles than it does to produce enough hydrogen for the same size car to do 200 miles.

I agree though - nuclear power is a future requirement - regardless of an oil or hydrogen based economy.
 
Simon said:
For a hydrogen future we need nuclear power. Then you have to ask, why not make all car's electric anyway?
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I guess that batteries will always be the limiting factor compared to Hydrogen, recharging for hours compared to just filling up like petrol, also the size and weight of the batteries alone.

As said before I am very surprised that governments still want to push the EV concept over Hydrogen
 
Dogbreath said:
Producing useful amounts of hydrogen by splitting water DOES require vast amounts of energy
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Simon said:
For a hydrogen future we need nuclear power. Then you have to ask, why not make all car's electric anyway?
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Because it takes a few hours to charge a battery, it takes a few min to fill up a tank.
Then there is what amigafan said re: metals.

amigafan2003 said:
Plus all the harmful rare metals needed to make the batteries :-?
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Nuclear power for Electricity + Hydrogen for cars IS the future. Honda are already developing a hydrogen generator you can run in your own house.

If politicians had a bit more of a backbone we would already have the infastructure for hydrogen fuel delivery and production in this country (and in USA). They need to start taking fewer bribes/kickbacks from the oil companies, stop worrying aobut the reduced revenue due to no fuel duty / oil tax ... and stop listening to the green brigade regarding nuclear power stations being evil.
 
Dutch Guy said:
As said before I am very surprised that governments still want to push the EV concept over Hydrogen
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The conspiracy theorists amongst us might suggest that the actual purpose of the current crop of car related legislation is to achieve some form of social change rather than an environmental benefit.

Of course, it could just as easily be due to typical government incompetence and ignorance, do any of the current government actually have any sort of qualification in an environmental science related field, or even a science field. I think Thatcher was the only PM with a science degree?
 
Or maybe they know that people will never accept a full EV due to the time taken to charge ... meaning they will not lose the income from oil/fuel (hybrids still use fuel remember).
 
gord said:
Great episode this week. Probably my favourite this season.

Did the later time of 9-10 give them some flexibility on sexual innuendo? Funny nonetheless.
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I think it was moved so it didnt clash with Sports Personality of the Year, as the type of person who would watch it would also watch Top Gear, so by bumping Top Gear by an hour, meant they could keep both audiences

Kimbie
 
Dutch Guy said:
I guess that batteries will always be the limiting factor compared to Hydrogen, recharging for hours compared to just filling up like petrol, also the size and weight of the batteries alone.

As said before I am very surprised that governments still want to push the EV concept over Hydrogen
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It's theoretically possible to charge in minutes, just not with Li-ion batteries.

Advantages of batteries over hydrogen:

Greater efficiency. Making and distributing electricity to charge a battery is much more efficient than making and distributing electricity to split water to make hydrogen to distribute to fuel a hydrogen fuel cell to make electricity.

Ease of getting the "fuel" to the car - the national grid works very well.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are EVs. It's not as though they have an ICE burning hydrogen. They're EVs. They're just using hydrogen as an energy carrier instead of batteries.

I think it's far from clear which will be better in the future. Batteries are certainly better now, as there isn't a hydrogen refueling network in place.
 
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