I think you're onto something there!Fox = Clarkson's replacement when he leaves TG.
Vauxhall Astra 1.7CDTi EcoFlex
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Well done, when the Mk5 Astra came out. I was talking about its visuals and the MK5 as a whole, yes I know going slightly O/T.
As you will know, I've owned and driven some right heaps in my time, but I wouldn't call any of them "hard" to drive
I think you are confusing hard to drive with undriveable
Can't say anything really, had more than my fair share of old bangers as well.
[TW]Fox;13267679 said:
you see thats somewhere ive always disagreed with you on fox
the "quality" of interior plastics
I just couldnt give a toss. As long as the bits you have to touch, ie the steering wheel and gear knob feel ok, i couldnt give a damn about the rest of the dash.
I know one of the reasons you dont like the new 5 series is the demise in "interior plastics quality" but i couldnt give two hoots about it.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Different to me - I hate things that feel cheap. I hate tacky mobile phones, I hate cheap plastic keyboards, its one of the reasons why my PC is housed inside an old Cooler Master case from 7 years ago - I hate things which feel cheap and flimsey and thats why I don't like Vauxhalls.
It's not a snobbery thing, heck my PC case is worth about a tenner, I just can't abide cheap plasticy stuff.
I hate to agree with you fox on this one, but I'm as anal about cheap things as you. Especially as over the course of our lifetime things have got cheaper, thinner, and are usually made from teh cheapest composite type materials as possible
Soldato
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LOL, 1250cc diesels come close to that power.
Although as low road tax goes, FIAT have a 1.4 petrol coming, with fuel and air injection, and a seamless change gearbox. £0 road tax, and more powerful than the current 1.4. Also more powerful than that 1.7 diesel.
Although as low road tax goes, FIAT have a 1.4 petrol coming, with fuel and air injection, and a seamless change gearbox. £0 road tax, and more powerful than the current 1.4. Also more powerful than that 1.7 diesel.
Got any links about this? Can't see how they can get more than 150bhp out of the 1.4 and lower the Co2? Any ideas what car's it's gonna be used in as they've just released some info about the Abarth Coupe.
105bhp I believe, unless am looking at something completey different.
http://www.fiat.co.uk/Content/?id=10857
Ah so it's a replacement for the current 1.4 N/A 90bhp engine, not the 1.4 Turbo Tjet engines (120bhp and 150bhp).
Soldato
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It's a replacement for the N/A, yes. Although technically speaking, it's air pump for the air injection might be called a turbo.
You won't see much, if anything, published on it yet, but they're plenty excited about it at Warrington.
They're giving it a gearbox in the fashion of last years F1 because letting off the throttle to change gear is quite polluting.
You won't see much, if anything, published on it yet, but they're plenty excited about it at Warrington.
They're giving it a gearbox in the fashion of last years F1 because letting off the throttle to change gear is quite polluting.
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LOL at the thread, Fox in a 'I Hate vauxhall' shocker 
Your views are quite flawed at times, certainly borne out of a bit of naivety, a bit of over enthusiam, and certainly a big dollop of irrationality..
Oddly, I don't think an Astra is class leading, but having spent a lot of time in them, I can safely say, compared to the equivalent model Focus/Golf, the differences, although easy enough to spot, are actually quite small, and certainly nothing fits into the night/day category.. and it's all pretty much par for the course in that class of car. The biggest difference would be the 'feel' of the focus, it's more communicative for sure, but that doesn't translate into much better handling unfortunately.
As someone else pointed out, it's all very well ridiculing Vx for their latest eco-balls version, when the Vw Blue Motion, or Ford's Econetics cars are similarly overpriced rubbish...
I'm just glad that I can enjoy myself in any car, as long as it's reasonably adequate, and the smile is always bigger when you've just left some twit in his 'supposedly superior in everyway car' in your P.O.S. vauxhall when their ****-sure facard sudden evaporates when you hit the twisties, and magically you just keep pulling away from them..
Your views are quite flawed at times, certainly borne out of a bit of naivety, a bit of over enthusiam, and certainly a big dollop of irrationality..
Oddly, I don't think an Astra is class leading, but having spent a lot of time in them, I can safely say, compared to the equivalent model Focus/Golf, the differences, although easy enough to spot, are actually quite small, and certainly nothing fits into the night/day category.. and it's all pretty much par for the course in that class of car. The biggest difference would be the 'feel' of the focus, it's more communicative for sure, but that doesn't translate into much better handling unfortunately.
As someone else pointed out, it's all very well ridiculing Vx for their latest eco-balls version, when the Vw Blue Motion, or Ford's Econetics cars are similarly overpriced rubbish...
I'm just glad that I can enjoy myself in any car, as long as it's reasonably adequate, and the smile is always bigger when you've just left some twit in his 'supposedly superior in everyway car' in your P.O.S. vauxhall when their ****-sure facard sudden evaporates when you hit the twisties, and magically you just keep pulling away from them..
Soldato
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LOL at the thread, Fox in a 'I Hate vauxhall' shocker
Your views are quite flawed at times, certainly borne out of a bit of naivety, a bit of over enthusiam, and certainly a big dollop of irrationality..
Oddly, I don't think an Astra is class leading, but having spent a lot of time in them, I can safely say, compared to the equivalent model Focus/Golf, the differences, although easy enough to spot, are actually quite small, and certainly nothing fits into the night/day category.. and it's all pretty much par for the course in that class of car. The biggest difference would be the 'feel' of the focus, it's more communicative for sure, but that doesn't translate into much better handling unfortunately.
As someone else pointed out, it's all very well ridiculing Vx for their latest eco-balls version, when the Vw Blue Motion, or Ford's Econetics cars are similarly overpriced rubbish...
I'm just glad that I can enjoy myself in any car, as long as it's reasonably adequate, and the smile is always bigger when you've just left some twit in his 'supposedly superior in everyway car' in your P.O.S. vauxhall when their ****-sure facard sudden evaporates when you hit the twisties, and magically you just keep pulling away from them..
On a GM floor? It's going to take something REALLY heavy to corner slower.
VX220, Monaro VXR, Astra VXR. Need I go on?
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am i missing something here
because the comparison so far has been between the automotive equivalent of white goods - shopping trolleys
That is to say (as an example) how the Ford Focus Zetec, is better than say the Astra Design.
Neither of these cars will corner particularly well when compared with sports cars, they are both designed for being driven from A to B. Yes the focus has independant rear suspension, but i bet the actual difference in cornering speed with their economy based tyres, and comfort biased suspension settings is minimal.
Soldato
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One of those uses a lotus floor. Another of them actually is really heavy.
Fair point.
I've not driven one, but I'd imagine the focus handles well, the rear suspension looks good for a hatch.
My 146 has independent rear suspension, but it's trailing arms, so not the best for stability, nice on the brakes and turning in tho. But to add to the mid corner disadvantage, the McPherson struts at the front love to tuck under.
But beyong all the handling, a lighter car will usually corner quicker, and some of the GM floors the Vauxhalls are based on are quite, erm, sturdy.
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Not in the real world it doesn't..
But for the sake of the thread, As mentioned by someone else, we are really comparing like for like, i.e 1.6 Astra and a 1.6 Focus for example..
Not being funny, but there are plenty of 'facts' that show the Astra is easily as competent as the Focus (As an example),
1. Fifth Gear, Hire car special, 1.6 Astra Vs 1.6 Focus, the Astra beat it around the track. They commented on how it lacked the feel and composure of the focus, but that doesn't mean it's devoid of either, and clearly it gets around the track faster.
2. Evo Magazine Astra VXR Vs Focus ST - same story, the Astra is quicker around their track.
3. Top Gear lap times, the VXR again is quicker then the Focus ST
I don't dispute that the Focus has more feedback, and it may feel more 'sorted' etc, but when it doesn't translate on the track or road to something majorly tangible, then it's not a really good comparitive benchmark is it?
The point isn't that I think the Astra is as good/better then a Focus/Golf, my point is that it's close enough, backed up by lots of facts as well as my own experience.
To make the statement that all GM Chassis are crap, and that weight is the major defining factor in handling (i.e. it would need a heavier chassis to corner slower) is a load of cobblers.
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As mentioned by someone else, this is comparing like for like, i.e 1.6 Astra and a 1.6 Focus for example..
Not being funny, but there are plenty of 'facts' that show the Astra is easily as competent as the Focus (As an example),
1. Fifth Gear, Hire car special, 1.6 Astra Vs 1.6 Focus, the Astra beat it around the track. They commented on how it lacked the feel and composure of the focus, but that doesn't mean it's devoid of either, and clearly it gets around the track faster.
2. Evo Magazine Astra VXR Vs Focus ST - same story, the Astra is quicker around their track.
3. Top Gear lap times, the VXR again is quicker then the Focus ST
I don't dispute that the Focus has more feedback, and it may feel more 'sorted' etc, but when it doesn't translate on the track or road to something majorly tangible, then it's not a really good comparitive benchmark is it?
The point isn't that I think the Astra is as good/better then a Focus/Golf, my point is that it's close enough, backed up by lots of facts as well as my own experience.
To make the statement that all GM Chassis are crap, and that weight is the major defining factor in handling (i.e. it would need a heavier chassis to corner slower) is a load of cobblers.
Some of this may be the case, but it's not just about getting round the track fastest, it's about feeling involved in the process, like the Vectra VXR (old one), yes it was fast, but it lacked any handling whatsoever, whereas the ST220 always handled well in the corners which makes driving it a much more enjoyable experience.
On topic though, The Astra / Focus range (apart from the top models) are designed purely for a large market of people who just want to get from A to B comfortably, speed is not an issue with these people, safety and economy probably tops their buying criteria, Astra and focus fit the bill nicely.
I must admit though, my frind bought an Astra Sxi back in 2005 and i drove it and it was distinctly average, i did not like the interior in it, given th choice of my old 2003 Mondeo TDCi or his SXi even counting for age, i would choose my older mondeo every time, i know it's not a direct comparison (large family car vs medium hatch) but forget about that, on the whole the ford had the better build quality for me.