Oxbridge query/advice

[Duff-Man]

Take up some sports/extra curricular activities that you could continue at Uni. Anything that makes you stand out from the crowd.

My director of studies at Cambridge (who was also the one that interviewed the applicants) was only interested in subject specific abilities. I think this is quite common in the sciences, and especially maths / computer science (I did maths).

I would do something to make yourself stand out, but related directly to your subject rather than some general muck. Have you written any interesting programs etc? Can you learn another programming language or two?

 

[Dark88]

I wouldn't care too much about all this 'extra curricular' stuff tbh. Maybe a line or 2 on your personal statement just to show you're not an working machine.

At least in my case the interview was all subject based they didn't care at all what I did outside of school. Your PS should also be pretty heavily subject based.

 

[stockhausen]

Executive Summary

So, to summarise then:

• an interest is sport may or may not help, probably not greatly
• you MUST be able to demonstrate a genuine, deep interest in your subject area, not just in "getting by"
• you MUST be able to show that you can think "outside the box", under stress
• you MUST show both the ability and the desire to be the best of the best
• you MUST show that you can think clearly, logically and quickly and explain your thought processes
• even if you get into Oxbridge, it may not be the right place for you - it is a VERY hot house
• luck does come into the equation for 99% of applicants

On point three above, I have heard of one Oxford interviewer who makes a habit, just as the interview ends and the interviewee is getting up to leave, of asking a completely "off-the-wall", open-ended question, entirely unrelated to the subject of the desired course. Examples are (for an English course - "How would you eliminate hunger throughout the world?", "What should replace the car?" or "Are Premier League footballers overpaid?". The point is that there are no right or wrong answers but you get a chance to show that you can think quickly and logically and can express yourself clearly.

On points two, three and four, remember that you are being interviewed by one or more people who are near the top in their field, they are likely to be more interested in research than having to teach "kids". They will be impressed if you are as enthusiastic (even obsessed) as they are - they may not be that impressed if you seem simply to want to study at Oxbridge.

As someone has pointed out, don't do this for anyone else, your parents or your teacher. If you do get in, you are going to have to work very, very hard, much of the time. It is NOT going to be fun and you may well end up wishing you had gone elsewhere where you could have met girls, got drunk and partied most nights of the week.

I can't comment on Oxford, but at most Cambridge Colleges, you will "live in" for most or all of your course, you will not get the opportunity to "set up house" with some mates.

As to interview technique, aside from the critical factor of knowing your subject and areas around your subject and being able to talk intelligently about it; you need to be able to know how comprehensively to answer a question without wandering or waffling - spend some time watching Newsnight (BBC 2, Weekdays, 22:30) and Question Time (BBC 1, Thursdays, 22:35) - see which panel members interest, bore and/or annoy you and try to understand why.


Finally, please believe that I don't want to put you off applying to Oxbridge - I just want you to understand what you are getting yourself into so that you enjoy and benefit from what can potentially be the best years of your life.

Good luck!

 

[w11tho]

I would concentrate on the academic side of things - this is, by far and away, the most important aspect of your application.

(like when they asked me in the interview "do you do differentiation in maths IB?" )

What on earth is patronising about that genuine question? The people interviewing you aren't likely to know much about the different syllabi, and are merely making sure the questions they ask are are fair.

 

[Dark88]

I would concentrate on the academic side of things - this is, by far and away, the most important aspect of your application.


What on earth is patronising about that genuine question? The people interviewing you aren't likely to know much about the different syllabi, and are merely making sure the questions they ask are are fair.

that's where if you say that in an interview they'll hit you with the most mind bendingly confusing differentiation you've ever had

 

[w11tho]

Incidentally I passed the interview but ended up turning Oxford down because of the experience, I'm very happy at Sheffield.

Sorry to be a pain, but I really dislike people who get turned away from Oxbridge then make out they actually got in, but chose to go elsewhere.

I applied for Engineering, (Magdalen College, Oxford) and they wanted 7 in Maths & Physics and 6 in a second science subject. I got turned down after the interview stage.

 

[Mat]

Standard advice from Trinity College, Cambridge:

'In addition to providing information in your personal statement about your enthusiasm and commitment for your chosen course, you can also include information about your extra-curricular activities. This can be helpful in showing how a student balances their academic and personal commitments. Skills or qualities - such as perseverance, independence, leadership or team-working - that are developed through part-time work (paid or unpaid) or other activities might also be taken into account. It does not matter what you do outside your studies, and you should not feel that you have to be doing lots of activities for your personal statement to look impressive. We recognise that there are some students who have extensive family commitments and little time for any outside activities. Ultimately, all admissions decisions are based on academic criteria and excellence in an extra-curricular activity will never ‘compensate’ for lower academic potential.
Each applicant is considered individually, using all the information available, i.e. academic record, including GCSE and AS grades and A level (or equivalent) grades or predictions, school/college reference, personal statement, submitted work (where requested), test results (where a written test forms part of the assessment) and performance at interview.
Admissions Tutors are looking for academic ability and potential, motivation and suitability for the chosen course, commitment and self-discipline.'

Get youself to the open days and chat to the teaching staff. Also, check the College websites, they may have useful info...

 

[rsatd]

Oxford computer science

It seems best you would get is either C++ if you are lucky or Java if you are not. Sorry but it all seems to be more theory driven then anything worth while.

Cambridge computer science
These guys at least tell you what languages they will teach you, ML and Java... Never even heard of ML, while Java, well I hate it, but there are jobs for it.

In the end of the day, those courses seem to be more theory based rather then any actual skill. So in the end it depends where you want to find a job in. But working with hardware or embedded systems will be "closed" to you on either of those courses.

But like I said, do what you want to do, but most employees who are not idiots now days, would not pay attention to what university you went tom, but more what skills you have, and unfortunately those courses will not give you many skills which are useful outside university.

Not digging into the "elite" universities, I couldn't care less. Just saying that it depends what you want to go into really. If you like hardware, device drivers, embedded things, or just plain C, this is not the course for you.

Regarding actually applying to it, I have no idea, sorry. My experience in applying to them was to take a leaflet, look at their GCSE level requirements and go look elsewhere, my GCSE's suck.

Edit: While in any university, during summer, especially if you go home. Look for local computer related companies where you can "work for free" at, basically approach them and say "I am studying so and so, and I want to gain some real experience working in the industry." Chances are they will take you on (mainly this free thing), and it will look amazing on your CV, shows you are interested in the subject rather then spending your summer drinking yourself stupid.

 

[purexxevil]

Well I applied to Oxford for maths, and I'd say although extra curricular activities are important, they're certainly not "required".
Especially if they're not relvavent to your subject.

Do if for example you take up table-tennis, make sure in your personal statement you somehow put a spin on it to relfect how its helped with your subject..

I was rejected in the end, and I have so many extra-currlicular, and in fairly unusual places too, so id say they are just looking for genuine enthusiasm and ability in your subject.

Although as has been mentioned above, i think its more important that you choose a course rather than a university first.
Its all very well saying you wanna go to Oxford, but if your course there isn't wonderful, you'd be better going soemwhere else and eactually gaining more knowledge on your course.
If however the course does appeal, then go for it.

You have nothing to lose.

 

[platypus]

Go to Cambridge, Oxford is for tossers .

 

[growse]

Oxford computer science

It seems best you would get is either C++ if you are lucky or Java if you are not. Sorry but it all seems to be more theory driven then anything worth while.

Cambridge computer science
These guys at least tell you what languages they will teach you, ML and Java... Never even heard of ML, while Java, well I hate it, but there are jobs for it.

In the end of the day, those courses seem to be more theory based rather then any actual skill. So in the end it depends where you want to find a job in. But working with hardware or embedded systems will be "closed" to you on either of those courses.

But like I said, do what you want to do, but most employees who are not idiots now days, would not pay attention to what university you went tom, but more what skills you have, and unfortunately those courses will not give you many skills which are useful outside university.

Not digging into the "elite" universities, I couldn't care less. Just saying that it depends what you want to go into really. If you like hardware, device drivers, embedded things, or just plain C, this is not the course for you.

Regarding actually applying to it, I have no idea, sorry. My experience in applying to them was to take a leaflet, look at their GCSE level requirements and go look elsewhere, my GCSE's suck.

Edit: While in any university, during summer, especially if you go home. Look for local computer related companies where you can "work for free" at, basically approach them and say "I am studying so and so, and I want to gain some real experience working in the industry." Chances are they will take you on (mainly this free thing), and it will look amazing on your CV, shows you are interested in the subject rather then spending your summer drinking yourself stupid.

Well, degrees are academic qualifications, not vocational training. If you do a degree in pretty much anything at a decent university, think of it more as being a preparation to becoming an academic expert / researcher in the field, rather than training on how to do a job. In CompSci, people who know the theory are hugely valuable to the industry, but don't count on having a compsci degree as being an easy way to get a programming job. It'll come in useful more as you progress through your career and start to be the person designing the next compilers, or CPUs.

The same is true of a lot of degrees, and it amazes me the number of people who go to university to do, say, law, just because they want to be a lawyer. A law degree teaches you about the academic / theoretical side of law (criminology for example) rather than how to be a lawyer.

 

[Beansprout]

I very nearly applied to Cambridge, everyone assumed I would for most of my life....then ended up at Plymouth doing their Computer Systems & Networks course because it was more what I was into by that point!

The course is vital, the name of the place secondary so long as the course has a good rep

 

[rsatd]

It'll come in useful more as you progress through your career and start to be the person designing the next compilers, or CPUs.

Don't agree with this, CPU design requires hardware knowledge that you will not get on either of those two courses, nor training in design tools such as VHDL or Verilog, which I believe are used to prototype said things.

Compiler writers required knowledge of platforms/architectures their compilers are written for, again neither of those sources would cover those.

If I was a potential employer, I wouldn't hire someone who never had experience in either. Especially if they have 40 years experience but all they ever wrote in was Java or C++. You just wouldn't get into those sort of jobs, and the theory they teach you is "as old as the universe". By the time these theories about the "latest" Intel architecture come out into university, technology would have moved on dramatically.

But yeah, id agree with researcher or academia, that's pretty much that. If you go into computer science with heavy mathematics in it, you could go into fair few places, like encryption for instance. I am not knocking those courses, just saying if apeZ wants to go into actual programming there are better courses out there.

Saying that it wasn't until my placement year that I figured out the industry where I wanted to work in, and always imagined myself working anywhere but a programming job.

 

[-Ad-]

Plan on not getting in. The worst thing is to get soo worked up about getting into Oxbridge, that if you don't get in then you have no backup plan in place.

There are plenty more fantastic unis out there which will hold you in just as good stead as long as you put the work in. A guy at my school was the golden child, golden younger brother too, prefect type, slightly geeky music, mother who did all the parents guild crap and pushed both her boys to Oxbridge. He did well and got a job at a top law firm. But one of my best mates wasn't like that, just did the work, went to manchester, did law, had some relevant work experience through a family friend, but turned down a job offer from here, and got into the same law firm as the guy previously mentioned.

it isn't all about the uni, it's how you go about yourself, your knowledge, experience, and how you come across to empolyers.

 

[growse]

*snip*

Interesting - this may be true now, but when I was there my CompSci friends were always going on about writing device drivers for something and learning the inner workings of compilers. I may have misread what they were saying and / or the course has changed now though.

 

[Voltar]

Oxbridge doesn't even accept the best candidates any more sadly. (thanks Tony)

I'd just study hard and follow your own interests rather than doing what everyone else does: don't just take up new things or extra things for the sake of it.

Do the extra things that you already enjoy and don't take on lots of other stuff to look impressive.

I'm sorry folks, but out of my year at an outstanding school, many got in but there were a lot who were truly outstanding who didn't make it. These people had everything going for them too. I had a shock when I found out that one of the thicko's of our year managed to get in by using the classic tactic of applying for a tiny college no one goes for, for an obscure course, and he got in.
That guy was properly dumb compared to many of the rejected guys.

If you are serious about it then don't heap huge expectations on it all as it might not live up to them (despite being a fantastic place to study). Do some research on your own, perhaps take a train and have a look around and see for yourself what it's like as opposed to reading the prospectus. Try and imagine yourself living there, imagine if you'd enjoy the entertainment in the city as well as the study.


I wish you all the best for your future. Good luck



Edit: you can forget it if you don't have fantastic marks (or some amazing reason for them to take you to interview)

 

[Dracata]

Everyone else has been said so, Cambridge all the way!

 

[D.P.]

Oxford computer science

It seems best you would get is either C++ if you are lucky or Java if you are not. Sorry but it all seems to be more theory driven then anything worth while.

Cambridge computer science
These guys at least tell you what languages they will teach you, ML and Java... Never even heard of ML, while Java, well I hate it, but there are jobs for it.

In the end of the day, those courses seem to be more theory based rather then any actual skill. So in the end it depends where you want to find a job in. But working with hardware or embedded systems will be "closed" to you on either of those courses.

But like I said, do what you want to do, but most employees who are not idiots now days, would not pay attention to what university you went tom, but more what skills you have, and unfortunately those courses will not give you many skills which are useful outside university.

Not digging into the "elite" universities, I couldn't care less. Just saying that it depends what you want to go into really. If you like hardware, device drivers, embedded things, or just plain C, this is not the course for you.

Regarding actually applying to it, I have no idea, sorry. My experience in applying to them was to take a leaflet, look at their GCSE level requirements and go look elsewhere, my GCSE's suck.

Edit: While in any university, during summer, especially if you go home. Look for local computer related companies where you can "work for free" at, basically approach them and say "I am studying so and so, and I want to gain some real experience working in the industry." Chances are they will take you on (mainly this free thing), and it will look amazing on your CV, shows you are interested in the subject rather then spending your summer drinking yourself stupid.

The most valuable tools to a Computer Scientist is a pen and paper. Computer Science is not software or engineering. It is a SCIENCE, i.e., it is based on theories and mathematics. The minor details like what hardware /OS/programming language used is utterly meaningless. Any machine which is Turing complete will suffice, be this punch cards and cogs, silicone transistors, or strands of DNA...

 

[[TW]Fox]

I very nearly applied to Cambridge, everyone assumed I would for most of my life....then ended up at Plymouth doing their Computer Systems & Networks course because it was more what I was into by that point!

I did the first year of that course and found its name very misleading. They should have called it BSc Applied Electronics with Computing, because thats pretty much what it was.

 

[D.P.]

I very nearly applied to Cambridge, everyone assumed I would for most of my life....then ended up at Plymouth doing their Computer Systems & Networks course because it was more what I was into by that point!

The course is vital, the name of the place secondary so long as the course has a good rep

The name of the academic institute is highly valuable, many companies wont even blink an eye lid if you are not from a top 10 (or 5) uni.