A day out ratting

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Rainmaker said:
I think you'll find Spie was correct in his question. When you have 'a' rat (or two) at home a spring trap may well effectively deal with the problem... if you don't own a terrier that beats you to it ;)
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I just suggested a more humane method, I didn't answer it on its practicality. I think he's just misunderstood me.

But out in the countryside, day in and day out, we can hardly place spring traps in every field can we? :p Aside from the obvious danger to people, you'd end up killing and injuring more non-target species than anything. Plus, you'd need more traps than it would be possible to lay.
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Again, not what was asked.
 
Since when has having an informed opinion on a subject and taking part in a debate been considered trolling? You were the one who blasted in with the ridiculus premise that wildlife and humans were in direct competition for survival. And I'm not shouting, I'm debating.
 
GavinBrown said:
I just suggested a more humane method, I didn't answer it on its practicality. I think he's just misunderstood me.

Again, not what was asked.
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In this instance I think Spie was right, you're being a little too pedantic. Put another way, how would you suggest to control all these rodents out in the countryside, with a way that is somehow more humane AND effective than terrierwork?
 
Spie said:
GavinBrown, seems like you are being more than a tad pedantic with your replies. You knew full well what was being asked.

So, what method should be used to control the rat population as an alternative to the one used by the OP?
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I don't disagree with the OP on using dogs, but I'll answer this anyway. Perhaps the introduction of a predator species would suffice? It's either going to be that or a rapid acting poisons dispersed in bait stations - most commonly used. Or perhaps a biological agent of some kind?

Ferreting doesn't go bad either, and shooting could be a solution. But if it's a widespread problem, that may not be enough, so biological controls may have to be used. Quick kill traps are fine to use in-house.

Rainmaker said:
Put another way, how would you suggest to control all these rodents out in the countryside, with a way that is somehow more humane AND effective than terrierwork?
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I can't, because I don't think there is anything more humane than that. Unless you consider shooting and ferreting more humane...
 
GavinBrown said:
Perhaps the introduction of a predator species would suffice?
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Like humans and/or dogs? :D

Dogs kill rats well, fast, and cheaply. There is minimal danger to other life, and no guns involved to boot (so little risk to the handlers).
Introducing something to kill the rats could end up introducing another pest. Dog's are controllable.
 
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I'm starting to wonder if any of your replies are serious.

ALL of your suggestions are either innefective, impractical or harmful to other animals.

Killing rats with dogs is effective, cheap and far more natural. In other words, it works.
 
GavinBrown said:
Ferreting doesn't go bad either, and shooting could be a solution. ...
I can't, because I don't think there is anything more humane than that. Unless you consider shooting and ferreting more humane...
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We use ferrets also, but mostly just the dogs. Shooting is OK, especially out with the lamp at night, picking them off the edge of the ditches. But dogs find and kill far more, far quicker, than other such methods. :)

Helium_Junkie said:
Like humans and/or dogs? :D
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LOL
 
Lovely to see the dogs working, Cheers for sharing.

Those against it should think a tad before commenting, Vermin is vermin & fair game & there are Damn good reasons why, Your continued good health for one.
 
Helium_Junkie said:
Like humans and/or dogs? :D
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Hey, I was asked for an alternative do dogs... and I don't disagree on using dogs either. So it's a bit hard to answer it without mentioning poison, which I think are inhumane anyway. So it's going to be shooting... or the introduction of birds of prey. I could say snakes too, but I'm not sure how effective that'll be.
 
GavinBrown said:
Hey, I was asked for an alternative do dogs... and I don't disagree on using dogs either. So it's a bit hard to answer it without mentioning poison, which I think are inhumane anyway. So it's going to be shooting... or the introduction of birds of prey. I could say snakes too, but I'm not sure how effective that'll be.
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I realise you're not posting against ratting with dogs. I just thought I should clearly acknowledge that. :) But we already have birds of prey, and snakes (nothing that makes a speciality of rats, however). Countries the world over which DO have a large population of raptors and snakes, Mustelids etc still have epidemic rat problems.

Humans + dogs/ferrets/guns/everything you can muster just about keeps the levels down. Biological 'warfare' control is ineffective and potentially damaging. Look at myxamitosis.
 
Spie said:
I'm starting to wonder if any of your replies are serious.

ALL of your suggestions are either innefective, impractical or harmful to other animals.
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Oh please, you put me into a corner and asked me for alternatives besides using dogs for killing. What else am I supposed to say?

You can't avoid these issues with some methods.

Killing rats with dogs is effective, cheap and far more natural. In other words, it works.
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I didn't say otherwise... I actually agree with you, so I don't know why you're asking me for alternative methods because those are the ones I can think of.

Shooting and using ferrets are probably the best of the bunch.
 
I don't see the problem with this, rats are rats, rats are vermin. This is a way to control them, no worse than any other way they get killed in the wild. Im sure cats and birds of prey get at them much the same way.

My little dog would love this he is a staff/lab little fella, and he wants to kill everything. Shame he won't come back when I ask him too lol.
 
GavinBrown said:
birds of prey. snakes
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Both would be needed in huge numbers, since they feed too infrequently to handle the population of rats in question. The OP for instance was facing a large breeding group of rats.

How is replacing dogs with another animal better anyway? The dog will break the rats neck very quickly in most cases, a bird of prey would wound the rat with its talons and probably not kill it fast, and a snake would suffocate it by eating it, or crush it, or inject a paralysing poison and so on and so forth.

Ferrets also, do they really kill faster than a dog?

Dogs seem to keep coming out as a more humane solution.
 
GavinBrown said:
I didn't say otherwise... I actually agree with you, so I don't know why you're asking me for alternative methods because those are the ones I can think of.

Shooting and using ferrets are probably the best of the bunch.
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Shooting has its place, but you get far better numbers, faster, by using dogs. Ferreting is a-ok by me, we do it. But it probably can't rank above using dogs on the humane scale; after all a ferret isn't much bigger than a rat, and they can receive plentiful relatively large bites while trying to kill their quarry. It takes a certain type of ferret to repeatedly work rat and not jack eventually. Far faster for rat and beast to use dogs. But like I said, both work and I certainly have no problems with either method.
 
Rainmaker said:
But we already have birds of prey, and snakes (nothing that makes a speciality of rats, however).
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Sometimes there's simply not enough predaton, and as a result, their population explodes. And that's easy when there's little to no contest.

Countries the world over which DO have a large population of raptors and snakes, Mustelids etc still have epidemic rat problems.
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Says a lot about the humans then.

Biological 'warfare' control is ineffective and potentially damaging. Look at myxamitosis.
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I'm not a biologist so I'll leave it up to them to debate on that.
 
GavinBrown said:
Oh please, you put me into a corner and asked me for alternatives besides using dogs for killing. What else am I supposed to say?

You can't avoid these issues with some methods.

I didn't say otherwise... I actually agree with you, so I don't know why you're asking me for alternative methods because those are the ones I can think of.

Shooting and using ferrets are probably the best of the bunch.
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You criticised the OP hence you were asked for alternative methods of control. Now it appears we agree his method is the most effective. So what's the problem?

Shooting, whilst fun, is too noisy to be effective. Smoke and dogs works better than anything.
 
Helium_Junkie said:
Dogs seem to keep coming out as a more humane solution.
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Indeed. Dogs rank as just about the best method (or certainly one of the best) for the job in hand, in terms of both effectiveness and humanity. That's why they're still kept and used in this manner. Else, I'm sure people would have reverted to the fabled new, improved way of dealing with the problem. As it is, the demand for working terrier teams isn't declining but growing.
 
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