How long before its all over for Vauxhall ?

Fr0dders · 26 Mar 2009 at 13:00

paradigm said:
But compared to its competition, the cars are wooly, badly made, poor quality, etc etc etc.

Ford's offerings at any market segment are better "normal" cars.

people say this

but why do police forces continue to run fleets of astras, corsas and vectras

if they were that unreliable and poor quality, they just wouldnt be used.

Dont see many dacias in the police fleets do you ? by all accounts the SVT (special vehicle team) at vauxhall get plenty of repeat business, so the numbers for TCO must add up.

vauxhalls only appear "poor quality" if you're into your cars, and more specificly quality feeling german interiors.

To the vast majority of joe public who buy a car to use for getting from A to B, they dont care and just dont want it to break down.

The problem here isnt that people arent buying vauxhalls, because they are. Theres loads of them, and they dont break down that much. No worse than anything in the same sector from Ford or the French. Vauxhalls only problem with regards quality is the feeling of quality oweing to poor quality plastics in the interior etc.. but mechanical reliability wise, they're no worse than the others.

Heck, according to owners, the astra is more reliable than the ford focus

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=232612&EL=3243777

and the corsa is more reliable than the fiesta

http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-report.aspx?NA=232612&EL=3243774

paradigm · 26 Mar 2009 at 13:02

MrLOL said:
people say this

but why do police forces continue to run fleets of astras, corsas and vectras

if they were that unreliable and poor quality, they just wouldnt be used.

Dont see many dacias in the police fleets do you ? by all accounts the SVT (special vehicle team) at vauxhall get plenty of repeat business, so the numbers for TCO must add up.

Cheapest, whilst remaining at least capable.

Doesn't make them any good, just makes them cheaper than ford, and better than the korean junk.

AmDaMan · 26 Mar 2009 at 13:05

To be honest I don't think it's down to their product range is it?

It's how their operations were run.

As for the product range, it's a car that appeals to the masses and it was doing just fine.

Booner! · 26 Mar 2009 at 13:09

It's a shame, because I do quite like the styling of VXR's... the rest of the range is pretty dire though.

TheVoice · 26 Mar 2009 at 13:13

paradigm said:
Cheapest, whilst remaining at least capable.

Doesn't make them any good, just makes them cheaper than ford, and better than the korean junk.

Plenty of police forces also use Fords though so I'd imagine the cost is comparable, so there must be reasons other than cost for Vauxhall being a popular choice (although that's not to say that cost isn't a huge factor). Even the Met solely use Vauxhalls Astras as their response cars, and this is a force than can afford BMWs as their Area, RPU and ARV vehicles.

We'll leave the fact that Humberside use Protons out of this, because they're just odd.

Fr0dders · 26 Mar 2009 at 13:14

paradigm said:
Cheapest, whilst remaining at least capable.

Doesn't make them any good, just makes them cheaper than ford, and better than the korean junk.

They only have to be good enough to sell to their target audience

This isnt petrol heads like us. They are cars designed in a lunch break, by people who dont care about cars FOR people who dont care about cars.

And it works.

Thats not the reason they're in trouble though.

AmDaMan said:
As for the product range, it's a car that appeals to the masses and it was doing just fine.

exactly. They're not supposed to be automotive perfection or the ultimate driving machine.

They're utilitarian transport. yes they handle poor, yes they've got naff interiors

but plenty of people still buy them, and in business thats all that matters.

slowrunner · 26 Mar 2009 at 13:38

TheVoice said:
We'll leave the fact that Humberside use Protons out of this, because they're just odd.

scooby's, bmw's, skoda's and volvo's aswell though, though it does tend to only be traffic that get them.

humberside traffic also used to have an escort cossie, they got rid of it because it spent more time in the garage being repaired then any other car they've ever had, like most fords!

phil675 · 26 Mar 2009 at 13:52

Vauxhall may have been producing crap for the last few years, but people still bought the cars. You can see it on any street, people who always bought Vauxhall and always will. I think the financial trouble is probably coming from the US and Europe, poor management etc.

Lum · 26 Mar 2009 at 14:06

TheVoice said:
Plenty of police forces also use Fords though so I'd imagine the cost is comparable, so there must be reasons other than cost for Vauxhall being a popular choice (although that's not to say that cost isn't a huge factor). Even the Met solely use Vauxhalls Astras as their response cars, and this is a force than can afford BMWs as their Area, RPU and ARV vehicles.

It's not like you actually need a fast or good handling car to get anywhere in the middle of London. Vauxhall probably just provided the best lunch/prostitute/bribe to whoever chooses the Met's cars. You'd probably get a quicker response time if you replaced the Astras with Piaggios or something.

South Wales seem to prefer BMWs for traffic, with the Astras relegated to visiting the scene of a burglary 12 hours after the event and other "be seen to be doing something even though you're not" type jobs. For that type of job, one where you put in just enough effort to get by, a Vauxhall is perfect

Demon · 26 Mar 2009 at 14:21

Lum said:
It's not like you actually need a fast or good handling car to get anywhere in the middle of London. Vauxhall probably just provided the best lunch/prostitute/bribe to whoever chooses the Met's cars. You'd probably get a quicker response time if you replaced the Astras with Piaggios or something.

South Wales seem to prefer BMWs for traffic, with the Astras relegated to visiting the scene of a burglary 12 hours after the event and other "be seen to be doing something even though you're not" type jobs. For that type of job, one where you put in just enough effort to get by, a Vauxhall is perfect

[edit] I mis-read, ignore

[/edit]

But, oddly, in the Road Wars last year, they had Vectra's.. which by all accounts on here would have been left by a Kia Pride, which had no issues keeping up with a Z4 3.0.. I think the driver of the Z4 wasn't upset for being caught stealing the car (I think it was TWOC), but for the embarassment of being out driven by a Veccie

Lord-Jaffa · 26 Mar 2009 at 15:37

paradigm said:
But compared to its competition, the cars are wooly, badly made, poor quality, etc etc etc.

Ford's offerings at any market segment are better "normal" cars.

haha what a load of rubbish.

Fr0dders · 26 Mar 2009 at 15:41

Lum said:
For that type of job, one where you put in just enough effort to get by, a Vauxhall is perfect

we're not disagreeing

more pointing out that because so many police forces (not just the met, west yorkshire police love their vauxhalls, omegas, astras, vectras, corsas etc..) do them. they cant be as poor quality or as badly made as people are making out.

The reason that GM europe are in trouble is not because Vauxhall use cheap plastics in the interior. They're bought by a market who dont care about this sort of thing.

Demon said:
[edit] I mis-read, ignore [/edit]

But, oddly, in the Road Wars last year, they had Vectra's.. which by all accounts on here would have been left by a Kia Pride, which had no issues keeping up with a Z4 3.0.. I think the driver of the Z4 wasn't upset for being caught stealing the car (I think it was TWOC), but for the embarassment of being out driven by a Veccie

do not mistake police vectras for your communal garden 1.8 vectra life enterprise rent a car.

Vauxhall have its own little division dedicated to prepping vehicles for the emergency services called the special vehicles team.

The vectra police special is a right hotchpotch of a car. Its got Vectra Design wheels (to fit over the non standard brakes) but built using a Vectra SRI base car. To that though, they either add the 2.8 Turbo Petrol or the 3.0 CDTI v6 (both only available in the Elite model).

The 2.8 Turbo petrol's power figure is unknown, but its 250bhp as standard, and will remap to 300bhp with ease. Given that thorney motorsport remapped all the mets 3.0 V6 CDTI police specials (see Here) i suspect theres quite a lot of them out there with 300bhp.

Theres also a version available from the SVT with the 2.2 Direct engine, but isnt used by traffic generally. But is popular with the normal beat cops.

paradigm · 26 Mar 2009 at 15:46

MrLOL said:
do not mistake police vectras for your communal garden 1.8 vectra life.

Lol. I think you'll find the saying is "common or garden".

Communal Garden, lol.

Lum · 26 Mar 2009 at 15:47

MrLOL said:
The 2.8 Turbo petrol's power figure is unknown, but its 250bhp as standard, and will remap to 300bhp with ease. Given that thorney motorsport remapped all the mets 3.0 V6 CDTI police specials (see Here, i suspect theres quite a lot of them out there with 300bhp.

Did they do anything to sort out the handling, or are they just used for motorway pursuits?

I can see these Vectras being interesting once they find their way onto the second hand market, kind of like the Americans with their police-spec Crown Vics.

Fr0dders · 26 Mar 2009 at 15:57

Lum said:
Did they do anything to sort out the handling, or are they just used for motorway pursuits?

I can see these Vectras being interesting once they find their way onto the second hand market, kind of like the Americans with their police-spec Crown Vics.

yes

they have uprated springs to cope with being thrashed over speed bumps etc.. they also have uprated brakes etc..

There was a police special on autotrader a few weeks ago. Look out for the 2.8 Turbo Petrol with an SRI badge. They never made one so if its a 2.8 SRI its an ex police special. Oh and in white usually

paradigm said:
Lol. I think you'll find the saying is "common or garden".

Communal Garden, lol.

ive never seen it written before, only spoken.

Berger · 26 Mar 2009 at 19:06

The police used SD1's, Rover 800 Vitesses, and also some 400s, one of which could potentially belong to a member of this very forum!

Didnt stop Rover going down the pan

Minxy · 26 Mar 2009 at 19:17

I too am getting bored with the Vx hate on this forum. Some can't seem to accept that Vauxhall are upping their game and actually producing some decent cars. They have a big following in the Enthusiast clubs and a long and successful racing history.

I've been very happy with my Astra G in the 7 years I have owned it. The only reason I am now selling it is due to a company car. I've grown up with Vauxhalls and although I now drive a brand new Audi, I am still not snobby enough to think that Vauxhall have nothing decent to offer because it simply isn't true. I'll fully admit they make some crap ones. I suffered a 1.8 Vectra Life for 6 months last year and hated every minute of it but then there are a lot of car companies that make some crap cars, plus no one who is interested in cars buys a 1.8 Vectra, they are purely a run around for reps.

Davidos12 · 27 Mar 2009 at 00:37

paradigm said:
But compared to its competition, the cars are wooly, badly made, poor quality, etc etc etc.

Ford's offerings at any market segment are better "normal" cars.

What rubbish, Had an astra G for 4 years now, driven countless focus's and mondeos and prefer the astra hands down. On 100k which is quite a bit for a 2003 car and only ever had to change the airflow meter at a price of £28. Handles nicely and engine pulls Strongly infact the engine is far better than the focus equivalent. Could give you a load more comparisons but dont want to be dragged down to that level!

These "Ford are much better than Vauxhall" fools get right on my nerves!!!!

Janesy B · 27 Mar 2009 at 01:20

Vauxhall cars are just bread and butter motoring, if all you expect from a car is that it doesn't break down and it keeps you dry then Vauxhalls don't disappoint. Some people forget that most people just don't care that much about cars, a car to most people is just a tool from getting from A to B.

VX probably get a lot of Police custom because they seem willing to bend over backwards and customise the cars for the needs of the Police, price probably comes into the equation as well.

Overlag · 27 Mar 2009 at 01:47

was reading in the paper the other day that ford sold 14'000 new Fiesta's so ford are doing "fine" with sales. Also said that those sales was to people like us so they got full price for them. And then led on to say 80% of Vauxhalls sales are to fleet/business at massive discount hence they havnt been going so well.