sickening police violence

Fido McNasty · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:20

Evangelion said:
He was walking home! He was getting out of there! He shouldn't have to worry about being attacked by the cops on the way.

Well he did apparently. When in fact there were no doubt plenty of opportunities not to have been. There is a clear tangible mentality of folk who think this way, and it is a stick in the mud mindset. Deliberately slow to react, not wanting to be randomly pushed around etc. I know this, we all do and have seen it. You must correlate that to the body language here and subsequent reactions to being on the floor.

The police had no business doing that, I know that too. But I repeat what I said and will continue to do so. The old guy didn't HAVE to be there. If he was crossing the route (knowing with his senses that trouble was about) he should have made fair progress across. But no, he was walking along the street not appearing to make way for the nearest out. If also, he got in, he could get out as I said earlier it is not a one way ticket onto a protest route. The police will be quite ready to deal with it.

Lastly, you take the situation is it appears in the video for what it is. Brutality vs ignorance. It is an absolute tragedy that he died and I am so sorry for that. How exactly do you think the police guy that pushed him is actually feeling right now ?

i-bert · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:30

I havn't read the whole thread, but just watched the vid and can't believe you people saying he was obstructing the police. Couldn't they have just walked past him?

:confused:

Fido McNasty · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:34

i-bert said:
I havn't read the whole thread, but just watched the vid and can't believe you people saying he was obstructing the police. Couldn't they have just walked past him?

You would think so.

Bear · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:36

Fido McNasty said:
Well he did apparently. When in fact there were no doubt plenty of opportunities not to have been. There is a clear tangible mentality of folk who think this way, and it is a stick in the mud mindset. Deliberately slow to react, not wanting to be randomly pushed around etc. I know this, we all do and have seen it. You must correlate that to the body language here and subsequent reactions to being on the floor.

The police had no business doing that, I know that too. But I repeat what I said and will continue to do so. The old guy didn't HAVE to be there. If he was crossing the route (knowing with his senses that trouble was about) he should have made fair progress across. But no, he was walking along the street not appearing to make way for the nearest out. If also, he got in, he could get out as I said earlier it is not a one way ticket onto a protest route. The police will be quite ready to deal with it.

Lastly, you take the situation is it appears in the video for what it is. Brutality vs ignorance. It is an absolute tragedy that he died and I am so sorry for that. How exactly do you think the police guy that pushed him is actually feeling right now ?

I havent a clue how you could even qualify what you are saying. Do you know where he worked and what roads he tried to get down to get home ?? I havent managed to get that from the news article or the news on the TV. With out that knowledge how can anyone say he shouldnt have been there ?? If he actually worked in amongst the area of the protest then how the hell is he supposed to get out ??

As to the how the police guy is feeling, I bet he is crapping himself and finding a way to get out of being done by lying through his teeth like they have been found to be lying already.

Fido McNasty · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:41

Bear said:
I havent a clue how you could even qualify what you are saying. Do you know where he worked and what roads he tried to get down to get home ?? I havent managed to get that from the news article or the news on the TV. With out that knowledge how can anyone say he shouldnt have been there ?? If he actually worked in amongst the area of the protest then how the hell is he supposed to get out ??

I don't equally know how you can refute it either.

However I am quite capable of drawing a lot of information from an image or moving video but I am not obliged to explain why. My opinion is not biased, nor is it condemmming the guy. I am condemming the situation and result.

newbiejim · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:45

Bear said:
I havent a clue how you could even qualify what you are saying. Do you know where he worked and what roads he tried to get down to get home ?? I havent managed to get that from the news article or the news on the TV. With out that knowledge how can anyone say he shouldnt have been there ?? If he actually worked in amongst the area of the protest then how the hell is he supposed to get out ??

As to the how the police guy is feeling, I bet he is crapping himself and finding a way to get out of being done by lying through his teeth like they have been found to be lying already.

Totally agree

another link suggests maybe even police were actively obstructive http://london.indymedia.org.uk/articles/1019

scorza · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:46

Can't see the problem tbh. The police were trying to contain a near riot and he was not being compliant, so he got a whack for his troubles. It's a shame he died but I doubt that him getting a whack had much to do with that - he looked pretty old and not in great physical condition. End of the day the police have a job to do, any sensible person would have avoided the area totally and not tried to impinge police operations.

This is quite different to the Jean-Charles de Menezes case, where Jean-Charles was killed despite doing absolutely nothing wrong, and the police were guilty of running a very shoddy operation.

Bear · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:47

Fido McNasty said:
I don't equally know how you can refute it either.

However I am quite capable of drawing a lot of information from an image or moving video but I am not obliged to explain why. My opinion is not biased, nor is it condemmming the guy. I am condemming the situation and result.

Im not refuting anything, Im just not passing judgement on something which has a complete lack of facts. The fact that we dont know where he worked or where he tried to walk to get home makes it seem ridiculous to argue whether he should have went that way home or not.

XeNoN89 · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:51

What a load of crap, people finding any excuse to have a go at the police as usual. The guy is clearly being obstructive on purpose and being pushed and getting a little wack in the leg by an officer is hardly excessive, so many idiots....

SexyGreyFox · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:52

i-bert said:
I havn't read the whole thread, but just watched the vid and can't believe you people saying he was obstructing the police. Couldn't they have just walked past him?

Well go and read what the whole day was about, watch the video again and then try to understand why they wanted to move him on.
He was being a git and sadly his heart couldn't take what he bought on himself.

newbiejim · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:52

scorza said:
Can't see the problem tbh. The police were trying to contain a near riot and he was not being compliant, so he got a whack for his troubles. It's a shame he died but I doubt that him getting a whack had much to do with that - he looked pretty old and not in great physical condition. End of the day the police have a job to do, any sensible person would have avoided the area totally and not tried to impinge police operations.

This is quite different to the Jean-Charles de Menezes case, where Jean-Charles was killed despite doing absolutely nothing wrong, and the police were guilty of running a very shoddy operation.

yeah he wasnt being compliant :rolleyes:

, there are witnesses saying he was assualted by police before this, how can you or anyone know that this guy wasnt confused/ill as a result?

Thorien · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:54

I think people are missing something here, he wasn't well, the fact that he was walking slowly may have been due the fact that his heart was about to pack in! I don't think he was provoking the police at all, the poor guy was ill!
Ok the fact that he was pushed may not have been solely reponsible for his death but it sure didn't help!

JBuk · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:55

XeNoN89 said:
What a load of crap, people finding any excuse to have a go at the police as usual. The guy is clearly being obstructive on purpose and being pushed and getting a little wack in the leg by an officer is hardly excessive, so many idiots....

It is excessive because there is no justification for it

XeNoN89 · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:56

JBuk said:
It is excessive because there is no justification for it

He was getting in their way on purpose when the officers are trying to do their job, would have been a bit different if they started beating him.

newbiejim · 7 Apr 2009 at 20:58

dmpoole said:
Well go and read what the whole day was about, watch the video again and then try to understand why they wanted to move him on.
He was being a git and sadly his heart couldn't take what he bought on himself.

first I knew of the 'being a git' law, whereby the offender gets assaulted and quite possibly dies as a result, jeez guys where is the sense of right and wrong here

scorza · 7 Apr 2009 at 21:01

newbiejim said:
yeah he wasnt being compliant , there are witnesses saying he was assualted by police before this, how can you or anyone know that this guy wasnt confused/ill as a result?

I'm just going off the evidence presented to me - the video. The emphasis is on you to prove that he was assaulted beforehand (and a few witness statements from a bunch of anti-capitalist rioters isn't proof) and that this somehow caused him to obstruct police.

A bit of thought is required here people, not just mindlessly jumping on the OMG Daily Mail police brutality bandwagon!

Solari · 7 Apr 2009 at 21:02

I can't believe the amount of people saying they have no sympathy. There really are some cold, heartless ******** on here! :eek:

Even without knowing the full reasoning behind why he was walking so slowly, the reaction from that officer is completely disproportionate. One copper either side accosting him and encouraging him to walk quicker would have worked. The guy had his hands in his pockets and might not have got his hands out quick enough to break his fall properly

I'm not a fan of the swampies and the like who hang around at these sort of protests but where's the concrete evidence suggesting that he wasn't actually on his way home?

Plenty of workers were loitering around on the day just out of curiosity and a colleague of mine stupidly managed to get penned in at the BoE... his boss wasn't happy

I feel dirty now after actually reading something on the Guardian website

aardvark · 7 Apr 2009 at 21:03

Von Luck said:
Most worrying thing is the number of apologists in here who seem to think that the bloke was 'asking for it'.

+1

SexyGreyFox · 7 Apr 2009 at 21:04

Thorien said:
I think people are missing something here, he wasn't well, the fact that he was walking slowly may have been due the fact that his heart was about to pack in! I don't think he was provoking the police at all, the poor guy was ill!

He was that ill that he jumped up and had a go at the police after he was pushed over.
Perhaps his name was Ronaldo.

JBuk · 7 Apr 2009 at 21:04

XeNoN89 said:
He was getting in their way on purpose when the officers are trying to do their job, would have been a bit different if they started beating him.

The guy wasn't doing anything illegal, he wasn't making a fuss, he wasn't being violent and he wasn't resisting arrest

The police do not have the right to go beyond the law and use a disproportionate use of force