sickening police violence

Chimerical · 17 Apr 2009 at 19:21

dmpoole said:
Why is my opinion expert?
It is just an opinion

Because its a ridiculous statement that you're comparing your health and resilience against injury with that of Ian Tomlinson.

RDM · 17 Apr 2009 at 19:26

Von Smallhausen said:
On what do you base that assumption ?

Media coverage perhaps or do you have first hand experience of front line policing on a day to day basis that you wish to share with us ?

Sorry I missed out a smiley. I was joking, well, the bit about repressing freedoms. It is however a bit of a sad fact that if people don't like someone then they don't think the normal rules should apply to them. Like the BNP leak and the recent case of Fred Goodwin. There are some people in this thread that don't like the police and so think the normal rules of justice shoudn't apply.

My experience with the police force has been nothing but positive. Even when I was stopped at 3am and when getting out of the car fell over a bottle lying in the road looking for all the world like I was drunk.

RetiredGreyFox · 17 Apr 2009 at 19:26

newbiejim said:
Well medical experts disagree with you, so can you confirm that you believe you know better than them?

btw u went to the trouble of uploading that image to ure webspace?

1 - No medical expert has actually confirmed that he died from being pushed yet but it seems you know something they don't.

2 - I'm fed up of people suggesting that he fell with his hands in his pockets when he most clearly didn't.

DanMc07 · 17 Apr 2009 at 19:33

So what if he was walking away slowly. He still was walking away. There was no need to strike him in the leg then push the guy over.
This is how the police act up here on a weekly basis at night clubs in town. I've witnessed it numerous tiems. over reacting 'cos they have "the power".
They really wind me up.

Von Smallhausen · 17 Apr 2009 at 19:38

RDM said:
Sorry I missed out a smiley. I was joking, well, the bit about repressing freedoms. It is however a bit of a sad fact that if people don't like someone then they don't think the normal rules should apply to them. Like the BNP leak and the recent case of Fred Goodwin. There are some people in this thread that don't like the police and so think the normal rules of justice shoudn't apply.

My experience with the police force has been nothing but positive. Even when I was stopped at 3am and when getting out of the car fell over a bottle lying in the road looking for all the world like I was drunk.

Fair enough.

It is quite ironic how the death of Pc Gary Toms of the Metropolitan Police barely scratched the media surface today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8005107.stm

scorza · 17 Apr 2009 at 19:54

newbiejim said:
Rubbish, you have a consistently skewed pro police opinion which doesnt tie in with your 'on the face of it' lofty moral-ed declaration. you and many on here didnt cut Mr Tomlinson much fairness, he wasnt innocent in your eyes, or many others on here who so readily championed the police DESPITE the glaringly obvious.

You must be a very bitter person to revel in this officer's life being ruined - did the police give you a speeding ticket once or something?

I was perfectly fair to Mr Tomlinson - he was obstructing the police which is why the police used reasonable force against him. Will making a scapegoat of this officer bring Mr Tomlinson back to life? I don't think so, the persecution of this officer is symptomatic of this self-pitying society we've been nurtured into - next there'll be a nationwide minutes silence for Mr Tomlinson, mark my words :rolleyes:

Chimerical · 17 Apr 2009 at 19:58

scorza said:
I don't think so, the persecution of this officer is symptomatic of this self-pitying society we've been nurtured into

Yawn.

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:01

dmpoole said:
1 - No medical expert has actually confirmed that he died from being pushed yet but it seems you know something they don't.

No one said they had< I said medical experts disagreed with your opinion< so can you indeed confirm that you believe you know better?

dmpoole said:
2 - I'm fed up of people suggesting that he fell with his hands in his pockets when he most clearly didn't.

Yeah get hung up on a point of VERY questionable worth, he was violently pushed to the ground and fell heavily, other witnesses say he was assaulted even before this. WHY OH WHY focus on minutiae of little consequence?

Von Smallhausen · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:01

Chimerical said:
Yawn.

But he does have a point .......

Chimerical · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:07

Von Smallhausen said:
But he does have a point .......

No he doesn't. Christ, its tiring reading and hearing about how everything has gone all politically correct nowadays and that we're in some kind of cotton wool society.

And I wish people would stop dragging the issue of society into this and making massive generalisations about the state of the entire country. So the Police apparently aren't allowed to hit anyone they feel is "obstructing" them. Big deal. And the whole "oh well I don't do anything wrong and I'm an upstanding citizen so unreasonable Police force doesn't effect me" argument is garbage.

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:09

scorza said:
You must be a very bitter person to revel in this officer's life being ruined - did the police give you a speeding ticket once or something?

I was perfectly fair to Mr Tomlinson - he was obstructing the police which is why the police used reasonable force against him. Will making a scapegoat of this officer bring Mr Tomlinson back to life? I don't think so, the persecution of this officer is symptomatic of this self-pitying society we've been nurtured into - next there'll be a nationwide minutes silence for Mr Tomlinson, mark my words

I wouldnt 'revel' as u say, in fact I feel sorry for the policeman inasmuch he has been led to believe, trained even to treat people like this, I dont believe for a minute that the policeman meant to inflict serious harm BUT he was certainly reckless and violent and IMHO needs to be punished.
You are not being fair to Mr Tomlinson IMHO by suggesting he was treated with reasonable force.

JBuk · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:13

newbiejim said:
I wouldnt 'revel' as u say, in fact I feel sorry for the policeman inasmuch he has been led to believe, trained even to treat people like this, I dont believe for a minute that the policeman meant to inflict serious harm BUT he was certainly reckless and violent and IMHO needs to be punished.
You are not being fair to Mr Tomlinson IMHO by suggesting he was treated with reasonable force.

We all know Mr Tomlinson was guilty of a crime though, he must have been as the evidence clearly shows him being punished by the officer so he must have been in the wrong

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:17

Von Smallhausen said:
It is quite ironic how the death of Pc Gary Toms of the Metropolitan Police barely scratched the media surface today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8005107.stm

Yes that incident is very sad and of course all us middle of the road citizens DO respect all the fantastic efforts made by the police, honestly I feel that it is because the tomlinson case has enraged the reasonable person that something will be done, and rightly so.

However it is not really comparable to the Tomlinson case.

Von Smallhausen · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:18

Chimerical said:
And I wish people would stop dragging the issue of society into this and making massive generalisations about the state of the entire country.

Like labelling the police force as an out of control gang of thugs with little accountability ........

Von Smallhausen · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:19

newbiejim said:
Yes that incident is very sad and of course all us middle of the road citizens DO respect all the fantastic efforts made by the police, honestly I feel that it is because the tomlinson case has enraged the reasonable person that something will be done, and rightly so.

However it is not really comparable to the Tomlinson case.

I didn't say it was.

I made a point of how Mr Tomlinson reaches top level of media coverage and Pc Toms barely gets a mention.

JBuk · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:21

Von Smallhausen said:
Like labelling the police force as an out of control gang of thugs with little accountability ........

Is that a quote from one of your own posts?

Von Smallhausen · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:21

JBuk said:
Is that a quote from one of your own posts?

Cheeky.

newbiejim · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:27

Von Smallhausen said:
I didn't say it was.

I made a point of how Mr Tomlinson reaches top level of media coverage and Pc Toms barely gets a mention.

Yes, that is a fair point and must be especially hard on the family/s of police officers hurt etc in the line of duty, however it is equally true that the tomlinson case is in the media deservedly as it raises questions about the integrity of police who we are supposed to trust.

Von Smallhausen · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:29

newbiejim said:
Yes, that is a fair point and must be especially hard on the family/s of police officers hurt etc in the line of duty, however it is equally true that the tomlinson case is in the media deservedly as it raises questions about the integrity of police who we are supposed to trust.

It raises a question of integrity about the officer concerned and a few others who were with him, not the police force as a whole and that is the point I am trying to make.

But mud sticks to the police uniform more than any other profession in the public eye.

RetiredGreyFox · 17 Apr 2009 at 20:37

newbiejim said:
No one said they had< I said medical experts disagreed with your opinion< so can you indeed confirm that you believe you know better?

Yeah get hung up on a point of VERY questionable worth, he was violently pushed to the ground and fell heavily, other witnesses say he was assaulted even before this. WHY OH WHY focus on minutiae of little consequence?

1 - No it is you that knows better than the medical experts. They haven't decided yet but you have.

2 - I don't think it is minutiae of little consequence because falling straight onto your head without cushioning would be a brutal fall that most would have a serious injury from.
Mr Tomlinson fell onto his hands/arms and cushioned the fall.
He also didn't show signs of discomfort while on the floor such as holding his head or his tummy.