sickening police violence

scorza said:
I see that Keith Vaz has praised the policing of the Sri Lanka/Tamil Tiger protest in Westminster today. Presumably this is the same protest I read about where the policing has been so ineffective that protesters have smashed their way through police lines and are currently illegally blocking traffic in the London rush hour :rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8008044.stm - about 50 seconds in.
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We can expect to see more protests policed like this in the future. Soon the police will be too afraid to use force and just let the protesters through, even if they smash the crap out of all the shops and bring the city to a stand still.

I actually hope the police do nothing at the next major protest and let everyone see the absolute carnage without police presence.

I reckon they would have burnt down the RBS and caused a riot if the police didn't use those tactics at the G20.
 
dmpoole said:
FAO Von and Andy,

How many people in the course of your duty (more than likely outside nightclubs) have you pushed and they have fell over?
Take into account some of these people would be very drunk also.
What about on a frontline like G20 - how many have fell over with a push away?

(I'm trying to prove myself wrong btw)
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If I have to forcibly move someone away from a situation, I tend to take hold of them and walk them away if it is safe to do so.

On occasions, I have had to physically push someone who is violent or threatening away to give myself and others some space but I don't recall one falling over.

For information, everytime I have to use force I submit an appropriate form which goes straight to Professional Standards / internal affairs. It documents what I have done and why.
 
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Normally as Von Smallhausen has already said, its enough to take someone by the arm and lead them away. It is quite rare to give someone a shove down the road (either from the front or back). That said we're trained to do so and usually shout the words 'get back' or 'Back' (as you may have heard in the video of the woman when she was struck with the baton).

In 22 years of doing the job having given a fair few people a shove to move them away when they've been violent, I can honestly say none have fallen over and yes a lot of them have been drunk or high as a kite on some chemical substance.

Most shoves aren't as such shoves, they're pushes. We've all been there when some idiot gets right in your face, nose to nose and is trying to intimidate you. They don't need to say anything, the mere fact they're in your personal space is intimidating enough. As a Police Officer you sometimes get some joker trying this on - they're usually pushed backwards to arms length and you take a step backwards to maximise the space between you - its called the Reactionary gap - space so that if they take a swing or have a weapon, then you should have time to move out of the way.

Again in my Police Force, if we use Batons, CS Spray, Handcuffs, UDT (Unarmed Defensive Tactics - such as an armlock, wristlock, kneestrike etc) then we have to complete a use of Force form. A copy is attached to any arrest files and is disclosed to the CPS and the Defence Solicitors.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
If I have to forcibly move someone away from a situation, I tend to take hold of them and walk them away if it is safe to do so.

On occasions, I have had to physically push someone who is violent or threatening away to give myself and others some space but I don't recall one falling over.

For information, everytime I have to use force I submit an appropriate form which goes straight to Professional Standards / internal affairs. It documents what I have done and why.
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Ever shoved someone walking away from you though?
 
soapboxstuart said:
ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the death of this man?
If so then virtually everyone serving for manslaughter should be let out now.
You clearly know very little about the legal system in this country. Read some books and get back to us.
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There is a very good chance this had nothing to do with his death.

You seem to have an unclear version of our legal system. you have to prove, that the fall caused the injury. Which is very unlikely, combined with the video of him looking drunk/ill would strongly suggest the injury was already there when he was push.
 
AcidHell2 said:
You seem to have an unclear version of our legal system. you have to prove, that the fall caused the injury. Which is very unlikely, combined with the video of him looking drunk/ill would strongly suggest the injury was already there when he was push.
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I thought they were arguing earlier that his drunken looking demeanor was 100% proof that he was having a heart attack. Funny how the evidence changes to suit the Police bashing agenda. :)
 
Wicksta said:
I thought they were arguing earlier that his drunken looking demeanor was 100% proof that he was having a heart attack. Funny how the evidence changes to suit the Police bashing agenda. :)
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For manslaughter you have to be sure. And in this case I can't see how they could prove that at the minute.

It's not like a building site where someone was not using a chute and dropped a brick, which killed someone. There you are certain what happened. This case you can not be.
 
AcidHell2 said:
For manslaughter you have to be sure. And in this case I can't see how they could prove that at the minute.

It's not like a building site where someone was not using a chute and dropped a brick, which killed someone. There you are certain what happened. This case you can not be.
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I was more referring to the people posting here.
 
dmpoole said:
Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

I suggest you go away and get a sense of humour.
Deary me.
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So you can't explain what it means - ok now i know.

Here's my court:
Evidence is presented eg video evidence, witnesses etc. Medical experts are called to give their opinions (I would point out that several medical experts have already stated that this type of fall would indeed cause an abdominal haemorrhage) both by the prosecution and the defence.
What then happens is a jury made up of members of the public decide based on the weight of evidence what the outcome will be.

AcidHell2's court:
Ah we're not sure. OK lets just leave it then.

I gather you are suggesting that Police brutality is OK so long as no one dies?
 
soapboxstuart said:
AcidHell2's court:
Ah we're not sure. OK lets just leave it then.

I gather you are suggesting that Police brutality is OK so long as no one dies?
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Not at all, I'm saying at the moment I can't see how a manslaughter charge could stick. The evidence does not suggest that the fall is the only way that injury could occur, as such it would (should) fail in court.
Could be the cause is just not good enough for a manslaughter charge, they have to prove the injury sustained was from the fall. And with witnesses coming forward sayign that he was beaten up before the videoed incident, they can not prove that to be the case.
 
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soapboxstuart said:
Therefore we cannot be sure that the rogue building site brick was the cause of death.
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engage brain before posting.

brick = hit to head, death from brain injury. All provable and all linkable.

Now look at the police case.

Haemorrhage from fall = unlikely (but not imposable)
Man looking unwell in video = possible injury already sustained.
witness have come forward saying he was beaten up before this incident = enough to suggest that their is serious doubt as to if the push/fall caused the fatal injury
Summary = manslaughter charge fails.
 
Wicksta said:
I thought they were arguing earlier that his drunken looking demeanor was 100% proof that he was having a heart attack. Funny how the evidence changes to suit the Police bashing agenda. :)
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Did anyone actually say that?,why even attempt to claim that when the documented FACTS show the police twisting the truth at almost every opportunity.
 
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