BARCELONA Grand Prix 2009 - Race 5/17

[Fr0dders]

you only have to look at ferraris blundering mistakes this year, to realise how much of ferraris sucess was down to the successfull strategy of ross brawn.

The switching of button from a 3 stop to a 2 stop to perfect effect has ross brawn written all over it.

 

[sunama]

You are disregarding strategy. The only reason Red Bull werent competitive with Brawn at Barca was poor strategy. Qualifying shows us that Red Bull are without doubt now equivalent to Brawn.

BrawnGP cars are not particularly great in qualifying. Where they excel is during the race. The car is very drivable, which means that you can push it hard and it stays on the track and is predictable when driving. This is why even when they dont do great in qualifying, they go on to win the race.

Vettel should have been competing for 1st/2nd but Red Bull strategywise couldnt work out how to get past Massa - ...

RedBull have taken the decision to not install KERS and this is hurting them when it comes to overtaking. Also, I dont actually recall Vettel ever doing a difficult overtaking move on anyone in F1. Perhaps someone can jog my memory? Perhaps, he isnt as accomplished when it comes to overtaking and this trend will continue throughout the year?

I agree however, that barring any technical issues, Brawn will have the championship wrapped up, they have built up such a lead.

I believe that they will continue to extend their lead (depending on how the RedBulls perform once the new diffuser is introduced).

As for Button, he is a fantastic driver it seems - Ross Brawn seems to agree at any rate!

He is good, but I dont think he is fantastic. There are plenty of drivers in F1 who are better [Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Kubica, etc].

Christo, you know Vettel could have always overtaken Massa on track if he couldn't do it via the pits ....

Yep. RedBull = no KERS = no overtake.

Its amasing how many people still want to not give Button the credit ...

Hey, I give him credit - I've already stated that he is absolute red hot favourite to win the title. He's won 4/5 and that is Champion material!

 

[sunama]

you only have to look at ferraris blundering mistakes this year, ...

The running out of fuel at the end of Massa's race was a cracker.

Massa must've been shocked when they told him that he didnt have enough fuel to finish the race at normal fuel settings.

 

[Fr0dders]

exactly

its school boy errors like that, that show how lacking in strategy they really are. Twice now they've missed the cut for Q2 because they called it wrong. Then that ..

They look like a right buch of amateurs this year, and a lot of that is down to them missing ross brawn.

 

[Entai]

you only have to look at ferraris blundering mistakes this year, to realise how much of ferraris sucess was down to the successfull strategy of ross brawn.

The switching of button from a 3 stop to a 2 stop to perfect effect has ross brawn written all over it.

Exactly what I said before.

He is priceless to any team he is working with. basically every team he has been Chief Designer/Technical Director for, has peformed way above where the team was before, or after, he worked for them.

That is why I cannot see anyone beating Brawn GP in the drivers or Constructors championships this year. Because even if another team gets a clear performance advantage over the Brawn GP cars, Ross' technical and strategic knowhow will come to the fore, and get them the points they need to stay ahead.

Look when he was first at Ferrari in the late nineties, the cars were obviously lower performing and less reliable than the Williams and McLarens of the time, but due to great drivers and great strategies from Ross they managed loads of race wins and a couple of Constructors titles against much better opposition.

 

[alex24]

The fuel error was not a strategic problem, it was an issue with the hose not outputting enough in the pitstop due to some technical problem. I think they made the best of it, as if he had to stop he would have lost at least another place.

Shame about Kimi, but after qualifying i'm wondering if he actually cares, though he has a very tough exterior, it's hard to guess what's on his mind.

 

[Fr0dders]

a ferrari fan revealing themself ?

not seen many of them this year

 

[Duke]

it's hard to guess what's on his mind.

Probably whether to accept the sponsorship deal with Walls or Ben & Jerry's.

 

[rypt]

Yep. RedBull = no KERS = no overtake.

Vettel hardly tried any moves on Massa though, KERS is not really an advantage in sector 3 where a move could have been made.

 

[JRS]

a ferrari fan revealing themself ?

not seen many of them this year

Oh, we're here. You just can't see us for all the BrawnGP and Red Bull fans

 

[alex24]

Guy likes ice cream, what can I say. Looked like a magnum, so is that walls? I can't imagine him selling them on an advert...I almost died or boredom in his last interview. Anyway....

Were all the BrawnGP fans Honda fans before!?

I've always been a Ferrari fan as long as I can remember, supporting since Alesi (I was very small then!). I'm not so bothered now, there's such talent across the field, things really never have been closer, i'm just enjoying the racing! Also Ferrari seem to have started very badly this year, I do wonder where it all went wrong. Seems they're catching up now though, too little too late imo.

EDIT: Just realised the Iceman is a fitting name!

 

[Prophet]

He is good, but I dont think he is fantastic. There are plenty of drivers in F1 who are better [Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Kubica, etc].

I disagree. Button has always been a fantastic driver just like the others mentioned. Schumaker has said before that button would be world champion if he had a competitive car and the numerous tests that have been broadcast comparing driving styles show button has one of the cleanest and most technical driving styles.

I'm not a huge fan of F1 but this season has really sparked off my interest again

 

[Demon]

The fuel error was not a strategic problem, it was an issue with the hose not outputting enough in the pitstop due to some technical problem. I think they made the best of it, as if he had to stop he would have lost at least another place.

Shame about Kimi, but after qualifying i'm wondering if he actually cares, though he has a very tough exterior, it's hard to guess what's on his mind.

They still called it wrong, even after that!

There was a reasonable window of oppertunity where Massa had enough time to Pit and do a splash and dash, and still come out in front of Alonso (As Brundle pointed out at the time).. Instead, they kept him out, and lost him a needless place..

 

[lopkinfop]

They still called it wrong, even after that!

There was a reasonable window of oppertunity where Massa had enough time to Pit and do a splash and dash, and still come out in front of Alonso (As Brundle pointed out at the time).. Instead, they kept him out, and lost him a needless place..

massa is partly to blame as well, if he had given up the place to vettel when his engineer told him to he could have kept a higher pace and maybe stayed ahead of alonso.

i can understand why he wouldn`t want to give up the place

 

[FrankJH]

Hey, I give him credit - I've already stated that he is absolute red hot favourite to win the title. He's won 4/5 and that is Champion material!

and then you rate Vettel and Kubica ahead of him - who have actually done a lot less than him, even in the seasons they have all been involved in - apart from showing "promise"

You also said something along the lines of "its the car " - even though RB is proving otherwise (note the reasonable to huge gaps in finishing times proving Jenson is actualy putting in a lot , and its more the combination rather than "just the car")

Remember - there still really havent been any straight races yet , either huge amounts of rain (favouring Red Bull as the Brawn hasnt been tested at all in the wet) or Ferrari holding up Red Bull favouring Brawn - Melbourne is always an oddity being the 1st race, but even that had difficult lighting conditions

Look when he was first at Ferrari in the late nineties, the cars were obviously lower performing and less reliable than the Williams and McLarens of the time, but due to great drivers and great strategies from Ross they managed loads of race wins and a couple of Constructors titles against much better opposition.

Huge difference to now is that Toyota, McLaren and Ferrari can all throw $$$M at their cars to get a one off win (for Toyota lets say) and with Red Bull theoretically at least equal to Brawn, the gap can quickly shrink. In the 90's that you where talking about it, Ferrari where only "rightfully" taking back the position they where "meant" to be in anyway - this time there are three (or four if/when Renualt get going) I hope Brawn do keep it going but all the big budget teams are going to start knocking a lot of points off Brawn /RB soon

 

[Dup]

Jenson has mentioned having to change his style to be more agressive to win Monaco and being willing to do that, could be an interesting "race". His record there is pretty rubbish thanks to team race bans, crashes and injury. Hopefully we'll see a chnge this time around.

 

[PinkFloyd]

I really hope Ferrari improve there reliablity, and Renault and Mclaren pick up the pace along with BMW. I want to see more cars fighting over positions
Would be great if Lewis could be competing with Button (even due to odd conditions) for the win at Silverstone!

 

[FrankJH]

Jenson has mentioned having to change his style to be more agressive to win Monaco and being willing to do that, could be an interesting "race". His record there is pretty rubbish thanks to team race bans, crashes and injury. Hopefully we'll see a chnge this time around.

I saw that in regards to Spanish GP too

ITF-F! are reporting that Brawn are trying to fit KERS - its just causing issues with packaging / weight distribution (with two tall drivers its not surprising) along with late adoption of McLaren engine and changes needed for that

 

[chrisd]

Can somone explain why many people consider Kubica to be one of the best drivers?

His career record isn't that impressive, particularly compared to the likes of Hamilton.

 

[sunama]

... and the numerous tests that have been broadcast comparing driving styles show button has one of the cleanest and most technical driving styles.

Being smooth and technical means very little. I'm afraid a lot of Button fans seem to make a lot of this.

The fastest single lap driver ever, was Ayrton Senna. He was anything but smooth when driving through corners. He used to pepper his throttle and clutch through every corner, sensing as the car was getting away away from him. Schumacher would also do something similar, where he would be dabbing his throttle throughout the corner.

Button's style is to brake once into a corner and accelerate once out of it. That is smooth and is actually the way I drive karts and F1 race simulations. However, as I have found out, it isnt the fastest method of taking a corner.

Even Button himself admitted this weekend that a smooth approach is actually slower than the more aggressive, on-the-edge, ragged style, which he had to adopt, as he progressed throughout the race weekend.

Last year, everybody thought that Button's smooth style would serve him well, after all the driving aids were removed. Barrichello went on to outperform him last years.

If you really want to find out about driving styles, try out some F1 simulations and you will get a better idea of race car driving is about.

In summary, smooth driving isnt the best or the fastest.